ACOUSTIC GUITAR NOISE

stephentayler · Post by **stephentayler** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:08 am

Also, honestly, considering that really heavy compression has become the norm for most recordings, is it any surprise that incidental noises are being amplified beyond belief?

I do acknowledge that heavy compression can create really cool sounds, so what I do is apply an EQ to the channel in question: find the annoying frequency, and draw heavy dips at that frequency into the automation.... they are usually very evident in the waveform.

Stephen

PS it also works for vocal sibilance and breaths

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:34 am

Actually, the only times i have done it are on solo vocal/acoustic geetar, and yes, he was a crap player and a crap engineer. Funny, i just worked with a client who wanted reverb on his electric bass. Needless to say, i did no such thing....

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:55 pm

Good for you.

When things like that happen here, I just politely but firmly say, "I'm not going to allow that on my watch". And I've never had anyone leave because I said it.

Sometimes you just gotta stop people from going over a cliff.

Spikey Horse · Post by **Spikey Horse** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:50 pm

I have basically two rules with regard to any type of player or instrument 'mechanical' noise.

- When using samples go to great lengths to get these noises IN the mix so it sounds as real and natural as possible.

- If using real instruments airbrush them OUT so it sounds as clinical and flawless as possible.

.....strange old business

msmith92 · Post by **msmith92** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:37 am

well, then it must be a mic problem which brings us back to the original post. could you reply to that? what mic technique do you suggest?

jrdmcdnld · Post by **jrdmcdnld** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:37 am

experimentation will be your best bet. Try different stereo patterns like X/Y at the 12th fret, ORTF, or spaced pair. You may or may not be wondering: "where does the tone of an acoustic guitar come from" Answer: everywhere on the guitar and the room (and the player). For me an important place to have mic'd is the face of the body of the guitar. There is a lot of tonal content there. Sometimes if you record the D.I., you can blend it in lightly to add attack to the sound.

Tip: Listen to the song and it will help you decide what type of sound you should be trying for.

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:24 am

Okay, now we're getting somewhere.

Nine times out of ten, the mic is simply too close to the guitar. One error we have all made is trying to get a lot of level out of a mic'd acoustic, because we "know" that you have to print hot levels in digital. Which is not a hard and fast rule. I recently recorded a live cello over at another studio and most of the time it was just hovering around -9 db on the input meter. But it sounded fine and wasn't a problem in the mix.

When you mic too close, you run the risk that when your guitar player DOES strum harder or pick harder, it will clip. The guitar is really really dynamic, unlike a keyboard or sampled drum sound. So, farther away, with some room sound, is safer.

I've been able to record really up-close and personal acoustic tracks, but the situation was always the same - the guitarist was a fantastic player with a lot of control and experience, and the guitar itself was a very high-end model like a 6 grand Taylor or Martin. And oh yes - the guitar was well intonated. A poorly intonated or poorly set-up guitar never works well for recording.

Another problematic situation is trying to record an acoustic in stereo. Most of the time this just results in a guitar sound that is too big, and you run the risk of phase issues and additional noise from the second microphone. Unless it's a solo guitar and vocal recording, recording in mono is the best way to go. Most Nashville producers record acoustic tracks in mono. The "wide" sound is achieved by doubling the acoustic part, either by copying the track and panning things hard left and right, or by having the player double it physically. From my own experience, I've always been happier with acoustic tracks I recorded in mono.

I have one more suggestion - you may want to check into the Fishman Aura, a processor box for recording acoustic guitar which uses a convolution technology to reproduce what sounds like a mic'd guitar. Believe me, it really does work, I've used it on my band's CD for acoustic guitars. The Aura comes with its own compressor and EQ, and is programmable. More info here:

http://www.fishman.com

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:52 am

David Polich wrote:One error we have all made is trying to get a lot of level out of a mic'd acoustic, because we "know" that you have to print hot levels in digital. Which is not a hard and fast rule.

Ongoing debate about this. something called "filling the bits" which is, well, incorrect.

solution:

Record at 24-bit and keep your peaks between -18dB and -12dB in Digital Performer. Your recordings will sound much more open when stacking lots of tracks, and you won't clip your plug-ins.

Also, regarding acoustic guitar, use the room to your advantage. Let the mics and instrument breathe a little.

Jeff

Atardecer · Post by **Atardecer** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:31 pm

David Polich wrote:
Another problematic situation is trying to record an acoustic in stereo. Most of the time this just results in a guitar sound that is too big, and you run the risk of phase issues and additional noise from the second microphone. Unless it's a solo guitar and vocal recording, recording in mono is the best way to go. Most Nashville producers record acoustic tracks in mono. The "wide" sound is achieved by doubling the acoustic part, either by copying the track and panning things hard left and right, or by having the player double it physically. From my own experience, I've always been happier with acoustic tracks I recorded in mono.

I would have to disagree there!

In my own experience, I've had great results recording acoustic guitars in stereo - for example an MD 421 pointing just off the soundhole with a 414 facing the neck. With a bit of care and experimentation (and wariness of phase issues) you can get a really nice sound. Of course, as david says, it depends very much on the type of music that your doing - if you're doing solo acoustic stuff, then i definately recommend it. Personally, I dont like duplicating tracks and detuning them to create that "wide" stereo sound, mainly because, well, it sounds like you've duplicated the track and detuned it. The different characteristics of the mics is what does it for me.

regards
James

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:23 am

I'll give on that one. Yes, I love a great stereo recording of a beautiful acoustic guitar as much as the next guy. Depends on where you're going with the tune.

Interestingly, I've used PSP's "Pseudostereo" plug-in to "stereoize" mono tracks and it's worked well. Takes some fussing about with the parameters of the plug-in. The plug-in saved my ass on a live jazz album I mixed, the keyboard player's Roland digital piano was recorded in mono, and the PSP plug-in (plus some creative EQ) was just the ticket.

m2 · Post by m2 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:18 pm

That squeak noise while certainly a PART of the acoustic guitar sound can really contain a lot of energy and has always been reduced as a rule on acoustic guitar recordings. It can actually become even more noticable with a compressor. A de-essor has been used by many an engineer but you will sometimes hit the detail of the preformance that you want. Same is true if you go after it with EQ. Small condensor mics like km184s properly placed can reduce the amount recorded. Most folks go after it like they do breaths in a vocal part:

If you record with out any dynamics and are planning on compressing ITB then I would make a separate track for the breaths/squeaks that is parked at a much lower level without compression. Then it can be diaded in as desired. Many a producer approached vocals that way these days.

Good luck!