SHOULD I DUMP DP???

cchord59 · Post by **cchord59** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:36 pm

I am one of the many users suffering from the constant crashing of dp 5.1 . I've tried everything listed on the site, and I still get crashes 10 times a day.

I am running a mac pro, with an 828.

I am so fed up with the uselessness of Dp right now, I seems that nothing can be done other than wait for an update to come in who knows how long. Unless I can find a cure for this, I think I will switch to logic.

Ive been using dp for years know, and I'm just fed up. How can I try to run a business with a program won't even run.

Thoughts?

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:49 pm

If you're having DP 5.1 specific problems, back out to 5.0.

If your problems are due to the recent update of Mac OS X 10.4, see if you can back that out.

Any time you do a system or application program, you are creating risk. Computers are all-purpose, unlike a hardware synth or hardware recorder. It is not realistic to expect that a vendor can check every possible combination of hardware, OS, software, peripherals, drivers, etc.

That said, DAW vendors have a particular burden on their shoulders as they are at the centre of most of what we do. I'm not making excuses for MOTU if they made a major booboo (I'm one of the lucky ones who is whizzing along on DP 5.1, but I recognise that it might have been the luck of the draw), but I also don't see why you'd dump it after years of use when anything you would use in its place would likely have similar problems, or other problems that might be worse, and involve a huge learning curve.

I understand that you're venting, but validation won't help your REAL dilemma, which is in your final rhetorical statement. As you are trying to run a business and are now in deep doodoo over the instability of DP 5.1 on your particular platform, your quickest path to productivity is to see what you can do to backout to the last known stable combination of OS and DP on your system.

Although I mostly do pro bono work and thus can't afford to have two computers, I urge anyone who depends on DP for a major source of their income to always have a stable computer, no matter how old, that they don't retire and/or upgrade until their OTHER computer (which may get updated more frequently) has passed every test they can think of.

This may seem obvious and not very helpful at this stage of your frustration, but giving up won't help much either. Take a deep breath and then take an inventory of the progression of events, and you are probably in better shape than you think at the moment.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:53 pm

cchord:

Most of the complaints I've heard have been from those using firewire interfaces-- particularly those using FW400 interfaces and FW HDs. There still seems to be the FW bus logjam-- not saying that this is exactly what's causing your problem-- but it's not difficult to shove more stuff down one FW bus than it can handle, even on the Intels.

Forgive me for not researching your setup, but do you have a Book Pro or a Tower Pro?

Depending on the issue, I would sooner consider changing the interface before changing DAWs, but I don't want to speak too soon.

Michael Canavan · Post by **Michael Canavan** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:06 am

Frodo wrote:cchord:

Most of the complaints I've heard have been from those using firewire interfaces-- particularly those using FW400 interfaces and FW HDs. There still seems to be the FW bus logjam-- not saying that this is exactly what's causing your problem-- but it's not difficult to shove more stuff down one FW bus than it can handle, even on the Intels.

My Fireface will simply freak out sometimes if I start the two external FW HD's up, it really does not like sharing the bus with HD's.
RME even strongly recommend getting a FW PCI card so that the bandwidth is increased.

pasam · Post by **pasam** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:03 am

mhschmieder wrote:If you're having DP 5.1 specific problems, back out to 5.0.

cchord59 is using a Mac Pro, so rolling back to 5.0 on that machine isn't an option.

I haven't used a Mac Pro, so I don't have any direct experience, but I do have a MacBook Pro. I agree with Frodo, a good start would be to remove the external Firewire hardware and see if stability improves. I would also suspect any drivers or third party kernel extensions that load at startup. Also, try removing all third party plug-ins and see if things improve. Unfortunately, much is still in its first generation on the Intel platform.

As others have noted in this board, a bad stick of memory can also be the cause of frequent crashes. Apps like DP can reveal bad memory where other less memory intesive apps may never exhibit a problem.

Are all of these crashes happening with all projects or just one or two? I have seen corrupt project files, damaged audiio files - even a corrupt sample library cause crashes. Some have had success by simply rebuilding a project's bundles.

This might be a long shot, but do you use Widgets? After being instantiated for the first time, they remain in memory until you either reboot or remove them (you can also quit them in Activity Monitor). If so, I would try removing all Dashboard Widgets in case there is a conflict.

Good luck.

Mike

Dwetmaster · Post by **Dwetmaster** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:43 am

I also have a MBP and I don't want to go back to G5 but I seriously thought about it. I really can't get a lot done without the constant fear of crashing. I know that if I save often I won't lose much but it still looks unprofessionnal in front of clients when your software crashes constantly like that.

Frodo wrote:

Most of the complaints I've heard have been from those using firewire interfaces-- particularly those using FW400 interfaces and FW HDs.

But I work sometimes without any FW plugged in and I'm still getting these crashes? I would love to have someone post here saying his or her system is working well with intel...

Anyways cchord59, I still think DP is a great software to use when it's working and I believe that, hopefully soon, all will be good. I just can't wait because IT IS frustrating sometimes.

billf · Post by **billf** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:38 am

FWIW, there was an updated driver released about two weeks ago. Don't know if that will help, but just in case, here's the link:

http://www.motu.com/download/download_m ... duct_id=14

Michael Canavan · Post by **Michael Canavan** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:09 am

I recently installed DP on the macbook, and at first it was buggy as hell. I was running 10.4.6. upgraded to 10.4.8 and it's running. Haven't used it enough to say it's running as well as the PPC version though.

If you are having problems it would be a good idea if you give basic system information, RAM, internal and external HD's, OS version, DP version, soundcard.....

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:03 am

I look at posts like this with disdain. The complainer gives no specs, location or offers anything but negativity to see what is said.

This is a mole pure and simple.

I use FW interfaces with NO issues 5.1 and anyone combining hard drives and IO's on a FW buss is a fool.

Get a life!

Dwetmaster · Post by **Dwetmaster** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:40 am

Well TimeLine, there's no reason to get disdained like this.
The only reason I didn't give any specs is because I have te exact same system I've seen over and over again on this board.
I don't know about cchord's problem but it's hell on my brand new macbook pro with 896HD, and the latest drivers. And this, with or without my FW drive plugged in.
I also didn't know about putting everything on my one and only FW being foolish.
On a more constructive tip, I just saw a post by a guy named Yaking taking about SuperDuper being a good way to backup your system before wiping everything and reformat. I'll give it a try tonight and I'll try to report tomorrow.

thanks

cchord59 · Post by **cchord59** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:51 am

Frodo wrote:cchord:

Most of the complaints I've heard have been from those using firewire interfaces-- particularly those using FW400 interfaces and FW HDs. There still seems to be the FW bus logjam-- not saying that this is exactly what's causing your problem-- but it's not difficult to shove more stuff down one FW bus than it can handle, even on the Intels.

Forgive me for not researching your setup, but do you have a Book Pro or a Tower Pro?

Depending on the issue, I would sooner consider changing the interface before changing DAWs, but I don't want to speak too soon.

I have a mac pro tower 2.66 quad.

I am using an 828 with the latest drivers, and i've tried running dp without an external fw hd and without the 828 and it still crashed.

I'm not running any 3rd party plugs.

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:56 am

Reloading everything rarely fixes these issues but who knows.

Sorry to unload there but there are so many of us with none of the issues you have. Your post stated " so many others" which isn't true.

You will be able to get your system working I'm sure and I would start with a call to MOTU. I use SCSI still internal on my desktop but I have a MB 1.75 with 5.1 also and it works fine. In fact I have done many sessions on it with FW IO's and No clicks failures or bad audio has ever darkened my door.

It's true, I use RME FF 800's but so what. FW is FW. I use the 800 buss though as the 400 buss is way too slow.

A single 10 channel IO takes up an entire FW 800 buss BTW when monitoring through the same interface on a laptop. On a desktop you can get up to three RME's online if only the analogs are in use, (10 channels max each).

NEVER use FW IO and and FW HD at the same time or your dead!!!! That also includes USB drives at the same time. For a laptop you must upgrade your internal drive to a faster drive or one with more room and just live with it or get an accessories plug but either way you are testing buss speeds internally in a Laptop which is not intended to be a base for a studio system but rather an adjunct to a desktop due to power. The new machines are much the same although the specs say otherwise and you have the added issues of software incompatibilities which have not been resolved.

Still could be your IO is messed up. Maybe get a hold of a few others to try.

Good luck

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:14 am

So your saying using the internal Mac clock on the internal drive with no 3rd party plugs your getting crashes?

What are you doing when the crash occures? How many tracks are online?

cchord59 · Post by **cchord59** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:35 am

Timeline wrote:I look at posts like this with disdain. The complainer gives no specs, location or offers anything but negativity to see what is said.

This is a mole pure and simple.

I use FW interfaces with NO issues 5.1 and anyone combining hard drives and IO's on a FW buss is a fool.

Get a life!

If you think I am a mole, your sadly mistaken. Sounds like fun though.

Are you running an intel Mac? if not you probably won't be having the same issues that Many Many other on this forum are.

If you read other posts on this issue, you'll see all the info you need. thats why I didn't include it here.

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:48 am

I appologize and retract the mole comment. Yes I see NOW your speaking of the Intel Mac. Please post your specs in the future. See how important profile info is on first post? I've been harping on this for months.

Yes, If MOTU can't get the Intel machines working smoothly I see your point but I would go back to a non-intel with a lease for a while befor you jump ship on DP.