Calling BS on Overpriced Cables

[arth]

Yeah, but what if I want to listen vinyls? Ah, here's the 125 000$ turntable http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/news/ ... -06071408/

The difference is that a $125,000 turntable might actually sound better than a $199 one. Vibration resistance does have a measurable effect when you play records. Perhaps you might not think that's worth the $124,801 difference, but it's still probably better sounding. Whereas the snake oil products have no effect on audio whatsoever, and this is why James Randi calls the bluff.

[Matcher]

If we look at the relative prices, that you suggested, for the turntables; 125000$ and 199$, that gives us the price ratio of 1: 0,001592. That applied to the 7250$ price of the Anjou cables gives us a price of 11,542$. What you are saying is that the 7250$ cables can't sound better by any chance than the 11,542$ cables.

If that indeed is your opinion, I'll have to disagree.

[monkey man]

There should be an enforced law against this kind of exploitation.

I simply cannot get my head around the fact that these folks are getting away with daylight robbery.

[FMiguelez]

There should be an enforced law against this kind of exploitation.

I simply cannot get my head around the fact that these folks are getting away with daylight robbery.

EXACTLY. I mean, aren't there laws against fraud and miss-advertising? These people ought to be put in a nut house.
Do they REALLY listen to the difference with their products? If so, that converts them into suggestable placebo idiots, especially if they'd be afraid to take a scientific double-blind tests to show them just how much they REALLY WANT to hear that "difference"
Or else, if the former is not the case, then they are just good ol' thieves and con-artists.
Maybe a little of both, 'cause we are incapable of listening to what they hear. So it's US, not THEM.

But what about just plain common sense????? Stating that cables make the music more "danceable" is just preposterous. Hey Cornies: forget about obtaining punch in your mixes. Dump those stupid compressors, EQs, etc. Just stick one of those wonders in your system, and you'll be having everyone dancing around you, like in an Apache ritual

[Phil O]

This topic has come up before, and it still infuriates me every time. I don't know what's worse - the manufacturers who sell this stuff, or the people who get sucked into buying it. When will these people wake up? Nothing is worth that kind of money.

Phil

[Resonant Alien]

My $0.02: if you can afford $43k speaker cables, you either have too much money, not enough common sense, or a combination of both.

[Shooshie]

Good grief! Arth's link to the $485 volume knob produced the following paragraph. You've got to read this to believe it. Please, if anyone ever doubted the veracity of the claims of these audio accessory companies, you've GOT to read this:

Good vibrations, Bad vibrations it••™s all about vibrations!! RAM would like to introduce a new signature level knob developed for the mighty Silver Rock potentiometer. The standard bakelite knob is certainly the best sounding compromise... but now Audio Consulting has taken this aspect of the Silver Rock much further. The new knobs are custom made with beech wood and bronze where the bronze is used as the insert to mount to the stem of the volume pot. The beech wood is coated several times with C37 lacquer for best sound as pointed out by Dieter Ennemoser. How can this make a difference??? Well, hearing is believing as we always say. The sound becomes much more open and free flowing with a nice improvement in resolution. Dynamics are better and overall naturalness is improved. Here is a test for all you Silver Rock owners. Try removing the bakelite knobs and listen. You will be shocked by this! The signature knobs will have an even greater effect••¦really amazing! The point here is the micro vibrations created by the volume pots and knobs find their way into the delicate signal path and cause degradation (Bad vibrations equal bad sound). With the signature knobs micro vibrations from the C37 concept of wood, bronze and the lacquer itself compensate for the volume pots and provide (Good Vibrations) our ear/brain combination like to hear••¦way better sound!!

Knobs can easily be installed on all versions of the Silver Rock potentiometer.

Unbefuckingleivable. Absolutely brazen. The smell of mendacity is overpowering. Can people really believe this fecal patter?

Microvibrations indeed. The damn knob on your potentiometer produces microvibrations that work their way into the signal path... and the beechwood and C37 lacquer prevents this? This makes me raving mad. I mean, the cables are bad enough. But I can imagine that the makers of the cables actually believe their own hype. They probably see electrical behaviors in the millivolt ranges which they actually believe they can hear. But this? A beechwood knob that makes the sound "much more open and free flowing with a nice improvement in resolution?" That makes me want to call up the posse, gather up the pitchforks and torches, and descend on Silver Rock's marketing wizards.

Yechhh! I feel dirty just from reading that.

Shooshie

[James Steele]

Hmmm... you know, at some point there should be prosecutions for this sorts of stuff as it really is fraud when you boil it down. Of course, due the subjective claims and the careful avoidance of measurable metrics, they get away with it. Ridiculous.

[Resonant Alien]

Good grief! Arth's link to the $485 volume knob produced the following paragraph. You've got to read this to believe it. Please, if anyone ever doubted the veracity of the claims of these audio accessory companies, you've GOT to read this:

Shoosh - this is even worse: This is the actual potentiometer (don't most people just call this a volume knob) that the $485 wooden knob is supposed to used with.......$2900-$5300 "depending on version"? For a freakin' volume knob?!?!? Tell me...what's the $5300 version have that the $2900 one is lacking.....and this is all before you pop another $500 for the grip end of a baseball bat to stick on it!

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/Magazine/e ... ulting.htm

Listen to the drivel the reviewer wrote about a $5k volume knob:

That is not to say that everything was well right out of the box. I made the decision, probably wrong in hindsight, to periodically listen to the unit during its break in period. For the record, Audio Consulting recommends a 50 to 100 hour music break in period. Serge Schmidlin emphasizes that this is in addition to a two-week polymerization process for any C37 lacquer treatment that may have been applied. During each of these episodes I would marvel at what the Rock did so well but I would eventually come away disappointed with its lack of dynamic conviction. There was, however, incremental improvement in this area, especially after the first 20 hours or so. And then one afternoon I settled down for another audition and discovered to my amazement that the fledgling had finally taken to full flight. Microdynamics were given complete scope of expression. The emotional intensity of the music pent up in the dynamic nuances of the signal was allowed to explode within a wide and deep soundstage. The sense of speed and control was also very much in evidence, as transients unfolded with laser like speed and focus. The three strong suites of the Rock, clarity, purity of expression, and dynamic conviction were blended into a coherent whole. Needless to say, that ended up being an extremely long listening session, and I have been glued to the Silver Rock since.

Are you KIDDING ME?? A volume knob that, after 100 HOURS of listening, suddenly and magically makes your music clearer and more dynamic??? This $5k sh** box with two pots and some wire brings more "emotional intensity" to the music you are playing through it???? Do these people actually believe their own verbal excrement??? Do they think people are this stupid??? (I guess so, or they wouldn't be selling these things.)

It really blows my mind.....a volume knob that increases the emotional intensity of music indeed. Why don't they just make a frekin' iTunes plug that would do that

Man......I thought us musicians were a gullible lot.....the high-end audiophile community must be borderline insane.

You know, if there are people in the world who truly can hear the difference this kind of crap makes, I really fell sorry for them. It must suck living in a car radio, iPod, MP3, elevator music world if you need gear like this to "really hear your music"....

[cuttime]

"A fool and his money..." wouldn't be a cliche' if it wasn't so true. If real science was still taught in schools there would be less market for this sort of thing. Unfortunately, pseudo-science is very much in vogue now, ... and I'd better stop now before I drive off the path towards politics...

[Shooshie]

That's just it. There's no legal definition of "more open" or "dark high register" or whatever. And even if there were, who is to say what one person can hear and another cannot? I know for a fact that I hear more than my father (who is 80) and many other people I know. Hearing loss is a fact. "Good ears" is a judgment call.

But I think if Randi could scientifically prove that there is no difference in the sound of two devices of astronomically differing price ranges, then maybe there would be some legal grounds for prosecution. Even then, is it not a victimless crime? Why do people buy those things? It's not for what they hear, it's for bragging rights.

"Oh yes, I spent $50,000 for that block of pure adulterium snowstone which chills the vibrations to solidify the dark and bright mendacities before they even leave the amp."

That's pure BS, of course, and that's what those guys want. Just something to BS their buddies with, or their girlfriends who think that anyone who would spend that kind of money would surely buy them a little Mercedes convertible and a string of pearls in return for a few BJ's. So, everyone is probably getting something out of it. I really don't think there's some guy who saves his money for years so that he can finally buy that set of $43,000 cables, only to take them home and say "wait a minute... I can't tell any difference!" But you never know.


Shooshie

[James Steele]

Pretty sad that the audio world seems to have become a magnet for con artists.

[Shooshie]

Good grief! Arth's link to the $485 volume knob produced the following paragraph. You've got to read this to believe it. Please, if anyone ever doubted the veracity of the claims of these audio accessory companies, you've GOT to read this:

Shoosh - this is even worse: This is the actual potentiometer (don't most people just call this a volume knob) that the $485 wooden knob is supposed to used with.......$2900-$5300 "depending on version"? For a freakin' volume knob?!?!? Tell me...what's the $5300 version have that the $2900 one is lacking.....and this is all before you pop another $500 for the grip end of a baseball bat to stick on it!

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/Magazine/e ... ulting.htm

Listen to the drivel the reviewer wrote about a $5k volume knob:

That is not to say that everything was well right out of the box. I made the decision, probably wrong in hindsight, to periodically listen to the unit during its break in period. For the record, Audio Consulting recommends a 50 to 100 hour music break in period. Serge Schmidlin emphasizes that this is in addition to a two-week polymerization process for any C37 lacquer treatment that may have been applied. During each of these episodes I would marvel at what the Rock did so well but I would eventually come away disappointed with its lack of dynamic conviction. There was, however, incremental improvement in this area, especially after the first 20 hours or so. And then one afternoon I settled down for another audition and discovered to my amazement that the fledgling had finally taken to full flight. Microdynamics were given complete scope of expression. The emotional intensity of the music pent up in the dynamic nuances of the signal was allowed to explode within a wide and deep soundstage. The sense of speed and control was also very much in evidence, as transients unfolded with laser like speed and focus. The three strong suites of the Rock, clarity, purity of expression, and dynamic conviction were blended into a coherent whole. Needless to say, that ended up being an extremely long listening session, and I have been glued to the Silver Rock since.

Are you KIDDING ME?? A volume knob that, after 100 HOURS of listening, suddenly and magically makes your music clearer and more dynamic??? This $5k sh** box with two pots and some wire brings more "emotional intensity" to the music you are playing through it???? Do these people actually believe their own verbal excrement??? Do they think people are this stupid??? (I guess so, or they wouldn't be selling these things.)

It really blows my mind.....a volume knob that increases the emotional intensity of music indeed. Why don't they just make a frekin' iTunes plug that would do that

Man......I thought us musicians were a gullible lot.....the high-end audiophile community must be borderline insane.

You know, if there are people in the world who truly can hear the difference this kind of crap makes, I really fell sorry for them. It must suck living in a car radio, iPod, MP3, elevator music world if you need gear like this to "really hear your music"....

Ok, that does it. Bring the pitchforks and lanterns. Meet me at the corner of Hollywood and Vine. Oh, and be sure your pitchfork is the one by Conrad-Johnson with the microgrooves in the tongs, for better spreading and tossing power. We're going to be poking those things into serious bullsh••, so we need all the advantages we can get. Mine is plated with pure copper and the handle is triple-lacquered with C37... Then there's my lantern, which...




Shooshie

[Resonant Alien]

Ok, that does it. Bring the pitchforks and lanterns. Meet me at the corner of Hollywood and Vine. Oh, and be sure your pitchfork is the one by Conrad-Johnson with the microgrooves in the tongs, for better spreading and tossing power. We're going to be poking those things into serious bullsh••, so we need all the advantages we can get. Mine is plated with pure copper and the handle is triple-lacquered with C37... Then there's my lantern, which...

He He I'll make sure I wear my Silver Rock bullsh•• Slingin' Rubber Boots. They cost me $55,000 (each), but they have a special pattern on the sole and a special resin covering that actually puts more dynamic bounce in my step. They even increase the emotional intensity I feel whilst slinging said bullsh••........errr....maybe that's just me being pissed that I paid $110k for a pair of freakin' rubber boots......

[arth]

That's just it. There's no legal definition of "more open" or "dark high register" or whatever. And even if there were, who is to say what one person can hear and another cannot?

Um, an audologist?

And as for "more open", "dark high register" or any other subjective (snake oil) terms, they can easily be measured, through double blind tests. You don't even have to identify what equipment is in use, as long as you can reliably identify a change in these subjective terms with a significant correlation to something being different.

There's no surprise that those who sell and review the stuff are not interested in doing any double blind tests. IIRC, the last time HiFi reviewers agreed to such a test, a coat hanger won.

Still, I buy "good quality" cables, not because they "open the sound stage", but because of the convenience. I like having decent plugs that won't rip out the RCA connector when I try to disconnect them, and cables with enough insulation that they won't pick up too much interference from other cables; strong enough that I can depend on them to last for a while, and soft enough that they won't move the equipment they're plugged into. That's worth a few bucks to me. But audible differences? As long as the cables are "good enough", there are no audible differences, and I dare anyone to conjure a double blind listening study that shows otherwise. Nanovolt charge differences or microhertz delays are inaudible, especially after going through the cardboard cone of a speaker and a certain amount of air before reaching my ears. Someone in a concert hall audience fanning themselves with a program would have orders of magnitude more effect on the sound pressure, i.e. it's negligible.

What these guys sell is snake oil, which works because the listener wants it to work. This isn't about differences of opinion, it's about faith versus science. And then, unfortunately, science will lose every time.