MOTU 16A discontinued?

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Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. for Mac OSX
dgatwood
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by dgatwood »

mothra wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2024 6:15 am Again, it was a factory fire that put the AVB line out of business. Same factory provided RME with their Thunderbolt chips, which is why RME no longer has Thunderbolt interfaces either.
RME actually blames Intel marking some Thunderbolt chips as EOL. And that's maybe plausible if their hardware doesn't look like a PCI device on the other side and they're using Thunderbolt in some other way. It's not really the way Intel expected Thunderbolt to be used, I don't think, which is why they probably didn't expect EOLing a chip that's designed for use on PC motherboards to break a bunch of device vendors, but that's rather beside the point.

The AKM chip factory that burned was five years ago, and they built A/D and D/A converters. That's clearly not the supply chain issue causing, for example, the LP32 to be unavailable, given that it has no analog audio at all.

The ASML fire mentioned elsewhere in the thread is a red herring. Their building had only minor damage. The plant was partially back online within days, and fully up and running by about four months later.

If they're having to try to buy NOS Intel Thunderbolt controller chips from anybody who still has them lying around because you don't want to do a redesign with a current-generation chip, that could explain why they're only making the most popular products and leaving those of us who are waiting for other products high and dry. IMO, they'd be better off ditching the original version of Thunderbolt and moving to Thunderbolt 4 or 5 (perhaps configured to run at Thunderbolt 3 speeds for broader compatibility).

Then again, they'd arguably be even better off putting a five-port AVB switch inside the device, making their device pure AVB, and making the Thunderbolt port just be an AVB-compatible Broadcom chip hard-wired to the switch. That way, their Thunderbolt hardware is just a bog-standard off-the-shelf retimer connected to a single-lane PCIe bus connected directly to the Broadcom chip with a 10 cent 8-bit microcontroller to handle the USB-C configuration pin handshake, similar to what Apple did in their Ethernet adapter, but maybe with a newer 2.5 gigabit chip. 😁
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monkey man
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by monkey man »

Crikey mate, you know your stuff!

I planned to grab a Mac M4 Studio when they come out this year. It's my first upgrade since I bought 24io units and a PCI 424 card for my cheese grater. MIDI Express XT USBs too, and they won't be compatible either 'cause the latest chip they accept isn't recent-enough.

Now I'm wondering what the Hell I'll do.

I'm committed to sticking with MOTU for all my I/O hardware (and DP as well), so yeah, a bit worried at this point.

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HCMarkus
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by HCMarkus »

monkey man wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:44 am Now I'm wondering what the Hell I'll do.
USB!

What are your I/O requirements Monkey?
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monkey man
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by monkey man »

Thanks for asking Brother Sir Markus.

Uncertain. My old system was 72 I/O via 24io units and 2 x MIDI Express XT USB, mainly to accommodate my ROMplers and Novation Supernova.

Given the massive improvements and options in the VI space in the interim and the attraction of being able to save and resume projects without the sysex setup (and ridiculous number of busses / bundles in my old template) that'd otherwise be required, I've been in-limbo for years (whilst saving bananas) about quite which way to go.

My tentative position therefore has been that I'll try to replicate the old setup in terms of I/O etc., albeit scaled-down a bit (ditch some synths), leaving the option to work either way or in a hybrid fashion. I still don't like the thought of not being able to switch projects on-a-dime 'though.

This is why you might've seen my recently saying that I'd love MOTU to include a bread-and-butter ROMpler VI in its factory offerings. That'd solve my problem for-sure. I don't expect anything to replace my JD-990 (for example), but for the convenience of being able to load up projects and get going right-away, I guess I'm prepared to make that sacrifice. The thought of it hurts 'though. I put many years of saving and configuring into the old setup so it'll be tough to let go.

I figured I'd start a thread on it, seeking fellow Unicorns' advice, but that I'd only do this once the new Studios dropped.

Any insights, musings and insults from you would be more-than-welcome my dear brother. :lol:

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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by HCMarkus »

Hi MM... how about something built around this:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... -interface

Then add an ADAT expander or two for some outputs and, if required, more inputs, all running on the 24ai AVB Mixer and feeding individual ins and out to/from DP.

If fewer inputs are required, the new 828 could be great as it provides a couple of decent mic pres.

Ferrofish or Behringer ADAT expanders provide flexibility at different price points.

The M4 Mini packs a powerful punch; you may not need a Studio.
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monkey man
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by monkey man »

Yup. I originally had 3 x 24ai in-mind 7 years ago.

Then I thought about ditching some of the synths in order to be able to get away with 2 x 16A for the convenience of the 1/4" jacks mainly.

That brings us up-to-date until this news of stock-availability issues, which of course has me rethinking everything yet again.

Thank you for your counsel brother.

Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
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HCMarkus
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by HCMarkus »

monkey man wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 12:30 am Yup. I originally had 3 x 24ai in-mind 7 years ago.

Then I thought about ditching some of the synths in order to be able to get away with 2 x 16A for the convenience of the 1/4" jacks mainly.

That brings us up-to-date until this news of stock-availability issues, which of course has me rethinking everything yet again.

Thank you for your counsel brother.
Always a pleasure!

A Patchbay is always a possibility, too. Favorite Synths Normalled to interface inputs. Less-used Synths available with a quick patch.

Phoenix connectors are simple, screw-secured, and relatively inexpensive.
Lop 1/4" plugs off the end of existing cables, strip and screw. (The wires :oops: .)
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monkey man
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by monkey man »

Yup. That's how I had it set up originally, using a Behringer patch bay.

The manual patching when switching projects didn't appeal 'though, so I went ahead and upped the interface inputs to cover everything's being plugged-in all-the-time.

Thanks again for your input Brother Sir Markus.

Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
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mikehalloran
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by mikehalloran »

The MIDI Express XT USB works with all current Macs.

The only issue I know is that you cannot install the driver after the MOTU Audio Installer. They are compatible with each other but the MIDI driver must be installed first. I went through this on a screen sharing call with MOTU Support a bit over a year ago.

Otherwise, there are a number of steps including modifying Security and allowing extensions etc. MOTU and Apple have docs on this.
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monkey man
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by monkey man »

mikehalloran wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2025 8:06 pm The MIDI Express XT USB works with all current Macs.
Including the "older chip" ones that can't be upgraded Mike?

If so, that's fantastic news; it solves part of the upgrade problem.

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mikehalloran
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by mikehalloran »

monkey man wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:55 pm
mikehalloran wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2025 8:06 pm The MIDI Express XT USB works with all current Macs.
Including the "older chip" ones that can't be upgraded Mike?

If so, that's fantastic news; it solves part of the upgrade problem.
If it has a USB port and firmware 2.0.1 and USB controller chip 1.32, then Yes. These were the same requirements for compatibility with all Intel machines, too. I bought the very last upgrade pair in 2012 after MOTU had pulled them from the web site.

If there’s a 3rd party audio driver installed—including MOTU—this may interfere with installing the MIDI driver. Not to worry, you can install those drivers after MIDI is up and running but they must be purged before installing the MOTU MIDI driver.
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by HCMarkus »

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monkey man
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by monkey man »

mikehalloran wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 9:19 pm
monkey man wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:55 pm
mikehalloran wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2025 8:06 pm The MIDI Express XT USB works with all current Macs.
Including the "older chip" ones that can't be upgraded Mike?

If so, that's fantastic news; it solves part of the upgrade problem.
If it has a USB port and firmware 2.0.1 and USB controller chip 1.32, then Yes.
I remember trying to update the firmware many years ago. No dice. It wasn't 2.0.1 'though.

USB port - check
Controller chip 1.32 - check

Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
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monkey man
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by monkey man »

Brother Sir Markus, thank you for that.

Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
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mikehalloran
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Re: MOTU 16A discontinued?

Post by mikehalloran »

monkey man wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 7:44 pm
mikehalloran wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 9:19 pm
monkey man wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:55 pm
Including the "older chip" ones that can't be upgraded Mike?

If so, that's fantastic news; it solves part of the upgrade problem.
If it has a USB port and firmware 2.0.1 and USB controller chip 1.32, then Yes.
I remember trying to update the firmware many years ago. No dice. It wasn't 2.0.1 'though.

USB port - check
Controller chip 1.32 - check
There are those who burn 2.0.1 and 1.32 EPROMs and sell them now and then. I see them on Reverb and eBay.
DP 11.34; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
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IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 NE Pro, Toast 20 Pro
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