Do's ans Don't's for a Crash free DP

qo · Post by qo » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:49 pm

mitchman411 wrote:Anyone having trouble with DP4.6.1 crashing while quitting the program.

Try removing the iSight plugin from:

/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/HAL

This has been known to cause crash on quit in DP.

croyal · Post by **croyal** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:22 pm

I find fewer problems when mixing or doing BTD when I create the new bounced file(s) to a different disk from where the project 's audio files reside- even if it is the system disk.

When swithing from 96k to 44.1 or vice versa- do the switch to the interface/clock before DP is running. Then with DP running, change the session rate/ bit depth. Basically do any digi hardware clock adjustments with DP NOT running.

Avoid Classic- if it has been running you should reboot to avoid crashes in DP. Same is for Dashboard, iSight plug, etc Purge and reboot- dont just simply log out and back in.

Even if DP has been crash free for an extended period- reboot from time to time anyway- especially before some heavy recording. This will clear registers and may expose COQ that has been lurking and slowly becoming another crash in progress. I the idea is that you quit and restart DP before it does it on its own (crash). Trust me- it will if you don't.

Set your system to one size and use it that way. Meaning, if you normally work with 30 mono and 20 stereo tracks- leave it (DP) that way even when you open a 2 track mastering session. DP seems to be a creature of habit and downsizing or upsizing just seems to confuse things; and in my experience, DP confusion = crash.

Every now and then open DP hardware setup and don't change anything. When you close the window, DP will act as if it is changing hardware- prob. meaning it is resetting things to the "new" setting. You should then quit and re-lauch DP (sort of a homemade permissions repair for DP).

Before you upgrade the OS AT ALL, make sure the audio drivers are compatible.

There are others, but these few keep my rig going.

Chris

scooter · Post by **scooter** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:50 pm

To ensure an absolutely, 100%, crash-free DP experience, my advice is don't launch DP You can still look at the icon in the dock........

That was definitely worth a chuckle.

I have to say my biggest potential problems come from adding in third party plug ins. The more I add, the more problems (crashing, sluggishness) can maybe occur.

scooter

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:29 pm

scooter wrote:I have to say my biggest potential problems come from adding in third party plug ins. The more I add, the more problems (crashing, sluggishness) can maybe occur.

Yes, I'm beginning to think this is the root of some of the problems I've been having as well. I'm working on mixing an album right now and using multiple instances of TTD plugs running under Pluggo. Despite the obvious crashes I've had when closing Hydratone, I'm afraid Pluggo is destabilizing my system.

TOD · Post by **TOD** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:19 am

This has already been mentioned but I would like to strongly emphasize:

multiple drives at least 3:

1) for DP

2) audio files

3) samples

that is all

eriknorlander · Post by **eriknorlander** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:16 pm

You guys rule. I've been a Performer user since 1987 and a DP user since 1998, and I still learned a lot from this thread.

Two useful things that I've learned recently:

1. Close windows that you don't need to view all the time. One to close that particularly speeds up the system is the Soundbites window. I don't know if MOTU tech support told me that or if it was someone here in this group. But dang, it works! I recently indulged in the Apple 30" display, and the temptation to have every imaginable window open is strong. But keeping only the necessary ones open really speeds things up, especially with big projects with lots of edits.

2. Fade Files and Analysis Files can get corrupted, and they will cause a Project to either crash or not open at all. DP will re-generate these files, so you can erase them from the folder within your DP project if things are getting squirrely. What I do when I encounter aforementioned squirreliness is to open the Fades and Analysis Files folders, view by date, and then delete the ones from the last day or so (or whenever the Project started showing problems).

And I strongly concur with the previous posts about merging the soundbites whenever possible and deleting unused soundbites.

Best regards,
Erik

jlaudon · Post by **jlaudon** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:30 pm

dtobocman wrote:"Mute frees system resources" is a big help in avoiding crashes and headaches. It's in Automation setup...

This feature frees purges any plugins from RAM on a muted track. The downside is that you can't make on-the-fly mutes of audio-based tracks. The upside is that you don't have to delete tracks to make them "inactive." The best part is that your CPU is not bogged down by stuff you're not even asking it to do, so... less crashes.

You can also disable the output of an audio track (to none) instead of deleting the track - this frees up CPU power.

mwalthius · Post by **mwalthius** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:50 pm

Here's one I've learned the hard way a couple of times...

If DP or any of my VIs start behaving oddly.... If the system starts to lag, take a long time to save, beachballs start occurring.... If anything doesn't quite seem like it should, then I save my work, close DP, reboot, and start again fresh. All good.

Also, I've learned not to switch out effects and/or software synths during playback. I only have a G4 with 768MB, and while I can run quite a few things simultaneously, it's definitely risky business to make changes like that while tracks are running.

All in all, though, DP has been very stable for me.

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:16 pm

SAVE as often as you can. I routinely have my left thumb and index finger positioned over the Apple and "S" keys. I do a Save after every recording take, plug-in parameter adjustment - basically after every single action I do. Flush the Undo History before closing the project as well.

It's a holdover from OS9 days, I guess, but it's still "saved" me working with my current system in OSX.

Gotta go with the "use only MOTU interfaces" recommendation as well - they're the only interfaces I haven't had trouble with. MOTU software and hardware is the winning combination.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

G5 Dual 2.3Ghz, OSX 10.4.4, DP 4.61, 828 MK II, 2GB RAM, second internal drive for audio.

scooter · Post by **scooter** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:43 pm

I'm getting a few new things from this thread. But I think beyond the obvious stuff of optimizing your Mac and optimizing D.P. i.e. closing other apps, closing unused windows, turn off beat detection if not needed, there is still an underlying mystery to D.P., that ghost in the machine that comes and goes at will. Right now I'm having a BTD crashing problem that just seemed to come out of nowhere. It disappeared for awhile and then came back again. I've tried a lot of fixes including the one suggested here of bouncing to a diifferent disc than where the audio files are located, all to no avail.

So I guess my point is, that no matter what you do to optimize your system, there is still that little troll that lives under the motherboard that will come nipping at your heels from time to time and will trip you up for awhile until you either stumble across the fix or figure out a workaround. It's part of the mystery of computer music. No matter what D.A.W. you use, the more you push it, the more chance you have of the ghost rearing its ugly head. That's why I can't even look at my audio performance meter, it's spiking most of the time and my creativity would go right down the drain if I left that meter up on my screen. I just keep working until D.P. gets hopelessly sluggish and then I'll back off a bit.

scooter

stratology · Post by **stratology** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:43 am

1. Don't use haxies.
I tried FruitMenu for a while, and started experiencing regular Finder crashes. Unpredictable effects on other apps as well...
Also have a look at this ...

2. Check System Preferences -> Accounts -> Login Items for anything that apps might have installed without notifying you, and remove things you don't need. (Example: MS Office installs some Startup Items, personally I always had good experiences with keeping my system completely MS free...)

3. Don't use apps that use an iLok for copy protection.
I am admittedly biased against the whole concept of the iLok, don't want to start flaming here.
When I used a softsynth for a while that required an iLok , I started experiencing regular crashes. The iLok installs kernel extensions in /System/Library that are loaded on every startup. As soon as I had removed them, the system was stable again.

4. Careful with freeware plug-ins.
Some run just fine, some will give you DP crashes straight away.

scooter · Post by **scooter** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:45 pm

3. Don't use apps that use an iLok for copy protection.
I am admittedly biased against the whole concept of the iLok, don't want to start flaming here.
When I used a softsynth for a while that required an iLok , I started experiencing regular crashes. The iLok installs kernel extensions in /System/Library that are loaded on every startup. As soon as I had removed them, the system was stable again.

Do you mean plug ins that require an iLok such as Waves for example??

scooter

stratology · Post by **stratology** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:37 am

Basically, yes. The problem seems to be the software that comes with the iLok, and what it does to the OS regarding stability - at least this was my experience...

This has nothing to do with the plug-in software itself. A buggy plug is easily removed. I'm referring to software that's installed in /System/Library.

This is a while ago, but if I remember correctly, the iLok came with an uninstaller for its software. This uninstaller did NOT remove all the software that the installer had put into /System, I had to look at the installer log file that the iLok software had created, and remove things manually, to get the system to behave again.

It's ironic, you can have a well written plug, but at the same time have your system compromised by poorly written additional copy protection software.
(And, regardless of ethics, one reason why you don't want to use [k]'ed software is that it can have similar detrimental effects on system stability as the iLok

)

Frank

scooter · Post by **scooter** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:20 am

This has nothing to do with the plug-in software itself. A buggy plug is easily removed. I'm referring to software that's installed in /System/Library.

D.P. 4.6 has been a little buggy since I installed some Waves plug ins. So I'm trying to sus out the problem. I looked into your suggestion about the system/library/extensions folder for this software that iLok has installed there. There is a lot of stuff in there and I'm not seeing anything that relates to iLok or Waves. Could you be more specific??

thanks,

scooter

stratology · Post by **stratology** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:54 pm

Hi scooter,

I don't have a backup of the old installer log files, sorry. What I found out from the old documentation: there should be 2 files, 'Interlok Support Install Log', and 'Interlok Extensions Install Log', that should list everything that was installed.
Looking for files that have 'interlok', 'iLok', and 'PACE' in their name might also help. (Spotlight does NOT look at items in /System...)

Removing files that were installed will render your Waves plugs unusable, as the copy protection does not function anymore...

I'm sorry I can't be more specific, when I ran into the problems, I removed every trace of the software that iLok had installed (tedious), as well as the plug I was using. (Got a refund from a very friendly reseller...)

Frank