RME FIREFACE + Aurora + HD192 setup - Many questions

[Timeline]

I have edited this post and made it clearer...

I just ordered this box and it looks great. I really want to see how 18 channels of Firewire IO's work out @ 24/96k. I have HD192 and use cuemix for input pre punch-in but concerned about hardware play-through using the FireFace IO and Latency differences. Does anyone have any experience here maybe with FW and porting ADAT IO's?

Will Cuemix allow me to see and add in non MOTU IO's for premix input monitoring like hd192?

The setup would be to input eight channels of a Lynx Aurora 16 through ADAT SMUX hoses. Guess I'll find out if a second IO will port that simultaneously for a total of 18 tracks @ 96K, 10 on the RME local and 8 from the Lynx. I realize I would only get 8 out of the 16 Aurora through SMUX light-pipe to RME at 96 but it's a stopgap waiting for a true FW card from Lynx middle of next year for the other 8. The question here is throughput capability. ??? So... I would basically be using the Fireface 800 to port the Lynx Aurora channels and Fireface channels all through Firewire to Mac. This with the HD192 should give 30 IO ins and outs. Asking too much of Mac & FW?

RME has some very cool software that comes with FF and the manual can be downloaded, which I did, but like all new things it take some "hands on" experience to really discover the bone closet. Think it'll work? Anyone?

[jlafferty]

I am not sure I totally follow what you are trying to do, and knowing this, I will probably tell you what you already know, but I will go for it anyway

About your direct monitoring:
Not sure what you were asking with all that, the fireface allows you to pipe anything coming in immediately through to any of it's outputs using the matrix, you can even do a submix of say, drums, and put that on a stereo pair, controlling it's level against other tracks etc.

You could take any or all channels from the lynx and the fireface and montitor them off the fireface, if you wanted to monitor all 30, you would need to do that off the 192 and there might be a smidegeon of latency.
I wouldn't recommend taking cue mixing outs of the 192 to a pair and sending that into the fireface for monitoring with the firewire channels or anything like that. Maybe the way to go here is a small analog cue mixer? take stereo stems out of each of the units?


About 18 channels of 24/96 through the fireface
I know that the fireface does 16 channels out of it's adat in smux, where are you getting the last 2? The 10 you refer to I think is 10 analog in, which is correct.

Throughput
30 channels of 24/96 direct in to the mac is a serious track count, but that would not all be across firewire, so I would imagine given a dual g5, it will work.

Clocking
How will you be clocking these systems? in theory the lynx clocks to the fireface across adat (I prefer to set the fireface as the master and use a coax, I have an onyx800R clocked to it).

You still have to clock the 192, would you use a t-connector or do you have an external clock generator? The lynx only has one coax out right?

Don't know if that helps...hope so

Jeff

[Timeline]

Thanks Jeff,

Good Idea sending cuemix to RME for headphone & main monitor. Any latency had might help balance the FW equation a bit.

I plan to clock everything from a UA 2192. The 2192 has multipal separate ports for sync and I will try to sync everything directly at once. I hope it works.

"About your direct monitoring: Not sure what you were asking with all that, the fireface allows you to pipe anything coming in immediately through to any of it's outputs using the matrix, you can even do a submix of say, drums, and put that on a stereo pair, controlling it's level against other tracks etc.

You could take any or all channels from the lynx and the fireface and monitor them off the fireface, if you wanted to monitor all 30, you would need to do that off the 192 and there might be a smidgeon of latency. I wouldn't recommend taking cue mixing outs of the 192 to a pair and sending that into the fireface for monitoring with the firewire channels or anything like that. Maybe the way to go here is a small analog cue mixer? take stereo stems out of each of the units? "
Yes you can switch the RME to input as i understand it but not have it switch on record. Is this correct? Trying to emulate tape style switching.

The outboard input mixer would be difficult for tracking where 16 live are being recorded. The cuemix to RME makes sense.

So you don't think Cuemix would see non-motu device outputs but it would send the inputs from cue mix to the RME?

This is what I need to know.

Thanks
[/i]

[jlafferty]

Hey Gary,

Whoops, forgot to look at your gear list in your sig. I hear great things about the UA clock, that should do the trick!

So you don't think Cuemix would see non-motu device outputs but it would send the inputs from cue mix to the RME?

I am not sure, because I don't own a MOTU interface any longer and never had 424 card. I doubt it though because cuemix uses the audio wire connected between the card and the MOTU interface, bypassing the computer. The only way to get something to the fireface is analog in or adat, etc.

When I say cuemix sends to RME, I meant using 2 of the 12 outputs on the 192 to 2 inputs on the fireface sending a submix that way. That would be very very low latency. A this point the fireface is the middle ground between the lynx and the HD192, with about the same number of tracks coming off each unit.

Yes you can switch the RME to input as i understand it but not have it switch on record. Is this correct? Trying to emulate tape style switching.

Sorry, I didn't quite follow this comment.

The RME has inputs and outputs, the matrix allows you to route inputs to outputs in many different ways, including creating submixes.

Switching on or off record is not a function of the fireface, it's a function of your software, all the fireface does is take stuff in and send it out.

Maybe you can clarify a bit and I'll get it?

Regards,

Jeff

[Timeline]

Hi Jeff,

I was told by an RME rep that the FF 800 software will allow input to output selection on any channel plus sub-mixes. What I meant was that DP could likely not control that switch to my knowledge but I get the box soon and will find out. If it doesn't then I'm going to suggest the add a button in software to tally the input switching to OFF in play on those channels selected to hard input. When a play command is seen it would defeat the input status of the matrex then when record is seen, switch back to input orthe setup condition that was set. This would in effect give us tape switching for punch in.

I would like to have one more button called 'preview' but it would be more difficult to implement, A momentary button to reduce incoming audio 3db while the preview button is pressed so the artist can hear both himself and the previous audio without overloading the
Digital IO. I usually drive the io to near peak and it clips when
monitoring both.

Sort of a alternate cuemix control.

Hey thanks for taking this thread on. I'll report back on my findings asap. It's going to be a very interesting experiment.

[giles117]

That aurora 8 looks really good

And the price is really appetizing.

[Timeline]

I'm getting the 16. It's not that much more. Ordering with SMUX ADAT LSlot card and PCI AESEBU Card.

[jlafferty]

I get it now!

Yes, to my knowledge, there is no inter-application link between the RME drivers and DP's driver set on mac.

There is a feature in Windows using ASIO Direct Monitoring which allows you to move a fader in certain daw's and control output faders in totalmix. (page 68 of the manual) This is the only inter-application control points I am aware of, and it only respects pan and volume from what I see, not mute.

One thing to look at is the ability of the fireface to store a specific routing, and respond to program change commands in MIDI. If you were to save the specific routing you want as one of it's programs in flash memory, you could do something as simple as use a MIDI control message in DP to switch to it, and then back again. This is different than the drivers sensing and reacting automatically, but it could work for you in a pinch to keep the workflow going.

Let me know how it works out for you, I happen to really dig the a/d and d/a of the fireface, and I think you will also be pleasantly suprised with the quality of the mic pre's, I sure was.

Regards,

Jeff

[Timeline]

I get it now!

Yes, to my knowledge, there is no inter-application link between the RME drivers and DP's driver set on mac.

There is a feature in Windows using ASIO Direct Monitoring which allows you to move a fader in certain daw's and control output faders in totalmix. (page 68 of the manual) This is the only inter-application control points I am aware of, and it only respects pan and volume from what I see, not mute.

One thing to look at is the ability of the fireface to store a specific routing, and respond to program change commands in MIDI. If you were to save the specific routing you want as one of it's programs in flash memory, you could do something as simple as use a MIDI control message in DP to switch to it, and then back again. This is different than the drivers sensing and reacting automatically, but it could work for you in a pinch to keep the workflow going.

Let me know how it works out for you, I happen to really dig the a/d and d/a of the fireface, and I think you will also be pleasantly suprised with the quality of the mic pre's, I sure was.

Regards,

Jeff

Thanks Jeff for that info. Yep I think I will really get into your suggestion and see why i can create from a record command.

Another option would be to see if a Mackie or HUI MIDI interface would be reassignable with some work to the FF. Would love to have DP channel record command select the input direct monitor in FireFace.

That would do it.

Cheers,
G

[Timeline]

Here is a copy of an email I just sent to RME.

Hi George. Nice speaking with you the other day.

I have an idea that I think would be extremely easy to implement with the Fireface software via MIDI.

If you were to add a button under the direct playthrough/direct monitor setup of the fireface software that when activated,
defeated the Fireface DM input status and switched to a play condition ONLY when a play command was acknowledged from a DAW via a MIDI pathway,
we would then have Direct monitoring tape style switching for all Mac users and they would likely buy and backorder your IO's and you could buy a Bentley..

What do you think?

Gary Brandt
Engineer/Producer
Earth Island Records


Of course this applies to all hardware manufactures and switched hardware playthrough would then work WITHOUT Cuemix..

[Timeline]

Received my FF800 and it sounds and works great.

Using MOTU DP and selecting both the HD192 & FF 800 works
without Agg Dev.

I found the buffer setting must be set to 512 though or clicks occure.

Happy holidays.