MOTUnation.com

greg328 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2024 5:57 pm What’s this I hear about VSTs being more efficient than Audio Unit plug-ins? Is there any reason for me to switch

Hi. No, I wouldn't if DP is working properly for you. I keep getting these "MAS AU error bla bla get class info" dialogs and crashes so O decided to go w/VST3 as much as possible. It seems like things got really bad on my system when I switched from VST2 as my primary format to AU. It might be a long shot but I'm open to trying anything at this point. If things do smooth out I'll post in troubleshooting with my findings.

I am curious if you have the same or similar issues on your Hack and your M1 Laptop...

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:21 am I am curious if you have the same or similar issues on your Hack and your M1 Laptop...

Yes. I’m having very similar issues on both machines with DP.

I highly recommend staying mostly with AU and using VST3 when you have to.

Yes, plugins and plugin incompatibility is the #1 reason for issues, in any DAW really, but VST3 at least in my experience is more likely to fail DP's plugin evaluation than AU. I instal all three formats, AU, VST3 and VST2 for some backwards compatibility, and MPC 2.

I feel like none of you spend any time with the Effect Performance window in DP, maybe I'm wrong but it seems like not?
I regularly open it up if I see the CPU spiking or I had a crash, you will see which plugins are sucking up more than their share of CPU, for the most part any plugin that's near spiking the CPU on a more modern mac is likely the reason for issues. I can currently name and shame Kontakt 7, MPC 2, and to a lessor degree Amplitube. All of those are somewhat problematic currently on my setup, and it's pretty obvious in the Effect Performance window. The reason MOTU doesn't have a database is simple, it's always changing, for instance Kontakt 7 has had issues for a while now but a recent OS beta seems to have solved most. there are likely thousands of plugins, it would be a full time job keeping a database and likely it would be wrong.

I switched to Logic for about 8 years right before the OS X version came out. It's a great DAW and so is Cubase, but around version 7 of Logic I had epidemic levels of crashes that eventually along with an audio import bug sent me back to DP. Cubase is stable now but that's not it's reputation, it was it seemed the crash-iest mac DAW, so I think looking at it for stability is probably a bad idea. Logic is great, but you have to get used to a completely different way of working in a DAW in some ways, and I do love Bitwig but it's super simple in terms of the linear timeline and editing in the main sequence. Reaper is amazing, but the main reason I didn't stick with it after giving it a go is I really don't like the way the arrange sequence window works, and it took months of setting preferences to get the MIDI editor to be painless. It's ultimately customizable, but it's a lot of work to get it to be functional.

Michael Canavan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:10 am the Effect Performance window in DP,

It is a very informative tool, indeed, especially when things are getting wonky or a project is pushing your computer to the limit.

Thanks. I check the effect performance window frequently and it doesn’t tell me anything new.l and the meters rarely get above half especially on my hackintosh. I’d rather favor VST3 to future proof over VST2 and I’m choosing it because. DP is giving me a MAS AU error dialog (all the time). Next week I plan on calling technical support and seeing if I can make any progress.

pencilina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 6:11 pm Thanks. I check the effect performance window frequently and it doesn’t tell me anything new.l and the meters rarely get above half especially on my hackintosh. I’d rather favor VST3 to future proof over VST2 and I’m choosing it because. DP is giving me a MAS AU error dialog (all the time). Next week I plan on calling technical support and seeing if I can make any progress.

This indicates an incompatible or corrupt AU plug-in to me (especially if you're getting the error on two machines). Are you getting the MAS AU error when you launch DP? I think you said you didn't have time to do the plugin troubleshooting routine (take half the plugins out of the Components folder and see if the error happens, then the other half etc), but if you are getting the error on launch it wouldn't take too long to isolate the problem plugin using that method.

dix wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 6:43 pm (take half the plugins out of the Components folder and see if the error happens, then the other half etc), but if you are getting the error on launch it wouldn't take too long to isolate the problem plugin using that method.

That's a terrific idea. Much better then F*&ing with the plugin mangler. Thank you.

I run all AU except:

Melodyne
Vocalign Project 5
Arturia Vocoder

Pretty sure that is it for VST3

No VST2

Interesting, HC. I'll have to check which version of Arturia Vocoder I settled on as the most stable.

I tend to prefer AU as the plug-in level presets are lifesavers for me when a vendor update wipes out the native presets that I stored. As far as I know, even VST3 doesn't have this feature, so you're at the mercy of updates not destroying your work.

As I am convinced I'll be leaving the Apple world the next time I can afford a new computer, I thought maybe I should start moving towards VST3 despite the loss of protection against software updates deleting my settings, but it's just so time-consuming and I have so little time for audio production these days as it is.

I am gradually getting to understand how Steinberg documents their products and have settled upon WaveLab, Dorico, and SpectraLayers due to so many flaws and instabilities or demises of products I use(d) in those spaces previously. I'll still use RX for some things where it's stronger, but I have abandoned all other mastering tools but WaveLab, and Finale takes so long to launch (when it doesn't crash) that I have almost entirely weaned myself off of all notation apps but Dorico as well.

Although I continue to buy updates to Cubase, I've never really used it to completion on any project, whereas I have found the same unique uses for Logic that others have mentioned here, yet I hope DP will eventually fold in those MIDI editing capabilities that are missing. Maybe I'll wean myself off of Alchemy, which is now captive to Logic.

What I have contemplated, is switching to Cubase for orchestral stuff and going the VST3 route with Vienna Ensemble etc., and sticking to DP for everything else, especially as the chunks feature is so important to me as is its strong MIDI editing.

Working with some MIDI today and found that DP's age-old adjacent note bug has returned (or was never fixed in the first place).

With consecutive notes of the same pitch, where starts & ends are quantized for notation purposes, playback doesn't work right. The 2nd note's duration is reduced to the shortest note possible. DP seems to be prioritizing note-ons and note offs in a dumb way.

It's been this way for quite some time. When I reported it before, MOTU dismissed it as a fault of the software instrument; even though II had proven to them definitively that it was not. I'm not going to bother contacting support on this one. I'm exhausted.

Also, had a lyric glitch from pasting some MIDI sections with lyrics, and the lyric tools just didn't work correctly. Then the QS display went haywire.

Sigh.

Hoping DP 12 will fix lots of our woes! Any word on when we should expect that?


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stubbsonic wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:31 amWith consecutive notes of the same pitch, where starts & ends are quantized for notation purposes, playback doesn't work right.

I guess that's why I never see this problem.

If quantizing for notation, as opposed to audio, purposes, perhaps a "Save As (Notation)" would be a good approach. That, or shortening quantized notes by a few ticks.

stubbsonic wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:31 am With consecutive notes of the same pitch, where starts & ends are quantized for notation purposes, playback doesn't work right. The 2nd note's duration is reduced to the shortest note possible. DP seems to be prioritizing note-ons and note offs in a dumb way.

DP does do note on off priorities in a way that doesn’t make sense to some. I did read somewhere an arcane justification for doing it that way. It might have had something to do with the way MIDI was supposed to work 40 years ago, and the expectations on how an instrument would work in that situation, like using another voice when a playing note is triggered again. You’d have to think that sometimes you want both notes playing which is what would happen if a second voice is used. Maybe that’s what they meant when they blamed the VI. I can’t remember the details but didn’t the K2000 work that way?

You’re right, it was never “fixed”. I doubt MOTU thinks it is an error. And there is a simple Duration command to change legato note lengths to make sure there is at least a one tick gap if you do want the first note to stop playing.

This consecutive note problem hasn't always been the case. It worked fine in some previous version of DP. It broke at some point.

Previously, when note #1's OFF was on the same tick as note #2's ON, the OFF was prioritized. Then later, the ON was prioritized causing the note to be shorted. It's obvious and dumb. It serves no purpose.

All they have to do is execute all OFF's on that tick first.

I do use a CHANGE DURATION to subtract ticks on all MIDI tracks. For a time, I thought this was fixed. But it just reared up again. Perhaps it was broken again in some update? Not sure.