DP Gripes, and things that have (almost) pushed me to Cubase

[dix]

Just tried this with MOTU Bassline and Modulo. Those worked fine. So definitely seems like something affecting third party VIs that are in a non-native format (anything other than MAS) that requires the support bundles that act as a translator between MAS and other formats.


massupport.png

An interesting theory, but I just tried this. If you put Bassline or Modulo in Legato mode they exhibit the same behaviors at the tempos mentioned.

[James Steele]

Just tried this with MOTU Bassline and Modulo. Those worked fine. So definitely seems like something affecting third party VIs that are in a non-native format (anything other than MAS) that requires the support bundles that act as a translator between MAS and other formats.


massupport.png

An interesting theory, but I just tried this. If you put Bassline or Modulo in Legato mode they exhibit the same behaviors at the tempos mentioned.

I just loaded them up. I wasn't aware there was a "legato mode" for Bassline or Modulo (or PolySynth which also worked). How do you initiate "legato mode" in those instruments?"

[James Steele]

Okay... FWIW I just found the "Legato" Mode button on Modulo and it still seemed to playback okay for me in DP 11.31. Not sure what accounts for that. Also I tried Legato mode in BassLine as well. No issues for me. Are you having this happen on your M1 or your Intel Mac?

[James Steele]

Probably won't affect it, but MOTU did release a new MOTU Pro Audio Installer recently. Depending on your interface, it may or may not be applicable.

Screenshot 2024-04-29 at 2.05.48 PM.png (21 KiB) Viewed 291 times

[dix]

Okay... FWIW I just found the "Legato" Mode button on Modulo and it still seemed to playback okay for me in DP 11.31. Not sure what accounts for that. Also I tried Legato mode in BassLine as well. No issues for me. Are you having this happen on your M1 or your Intel Mac?

Using the default patches in those two MOTU synths, the notes don't cut off btw - they sustain when they should play a new note. I've found a few Omnisphere synth patches that act the same. ....In my test I have a two bar note that I sliced into 8th notes with the scissor tool fyi.

[James Steele]

Okay... FWIW I just found the "Legato" Mode button on Modulo and it still seemed to playback okay for me in DP 11.31. Not sure what accounts for that. Also I tried Legato mode in BassLine as well. No issues for me. Are you having this happen on your M1 or your Intel Mac?

Using the default patches in those two MOTU synths, the notes don't cut off btw - they sustain when they should play a new note. I've found a few Omnisphere synth patches that act the same. ....In my test I have a two bar note that I sliced into 8th notes with the scissor tool fyi.

Not sure what's going on, but I loaded several preset patches in Legato mode on both of them and nothing abnormal happened on my end. They all played as they should and none of them kept sustaining when they shouldn't have.

[dix]

Not sure what's going on, but I loaded several preset patches in Legato mode on both of them and nothing abnormal happened on my end. They all played as they should and none of them kept sustaining when they shouldn't have.

Another DP mystery I guess. I can't get Nanosampler to exhibit the behavior at all with any patch, so there must be something different about how MOTU's instruments are programmed.

[James Steele]

Not sure what's going on, but I loaded several preset patches in Legato mode on both of them and nothing abnormal happened on my end. They all played as they should and none of them kept sustaining when they shouldn't have.

Another DP mystery I guess. I can't get Nanosampler to exhibit the behavior at all with any patch, so there must be something different about how MOTU's instruments are programmed.

That or it may involved the "abstraction layer" that is the go-between MAS and VST3, VST2 and AU plug-ins. I can try more patches in Bassline and Modulo in Legato mode, but so far it's fine here. Maybe you can suggest stock preset for either of those that isn't working? I also wrote to MOTU about this. I think the fact that there are some tempos where there are no issues will probably provide a major clue to MOTU fixing this once and for all.

[stubbsonic]

Oh and for me the buggy behavior was certain notes just didn't play at all when I had True Pianos loaded.

I think that is because some VI's might have different "release" characteristics. So what you're hearing when a note is shorted is the release portion. It's weird, because I'd expect True Pianos to have a proper release portion.

Good call on the MAS vs AU/VST. I did test VST and the issue was the same.

I'll update the ticket.

[stubbsonic]

I resuscitated my old techlinks on this topic. Is it better for me to start a fresh one?

Oh, as a side note, DP crashed three times while I was turning on VST versions of instruments.

[Michael Canavan]

I went ahead and downloaded this to test. It shortens notes randomly with all piano plugins here, EW, NI, IK, and Arturia which is a virtual instrument from what I know, It does not shorten any synthesizer plugin I throw at it.

Side note, if you hold down the Sustain peddle it doesn't shorten the notes.
Logic does not shorten the notes.

I have one question though, when is this going to be a thing? I don't think you're going to get a true legato when playing in a re-strike of a single key so it wouldn't exhibit this behavior anyway, penciling in the notes, if you need that sound wouldn't you just engage sustain? I'm genuinely curious not trying to be rude.

[James Steele]

I went ahead and downloaded this to test. It shortens notes randomly with all piano plugins here, EW, NI, IK, and Arturia which is a virtual instrument from what I know, It does not shorten any synthesizer plugin I throw at it.

I didn't get shortened notes... just note that either played or didn't play at all. Hmmmm.

[dix]

I went ahead and downloaded this to test. It shortens notes randomly with all piano plugins here, EW, NI, IK, and Arturia which is a virtual instrument from what I know, It does not shorten any synthesizer plugin I throw at it.

Side note, if you hold down the Sustain peddle it doesn't shorten the notes.
Logic does not shorten the notes.

I have one question though, when is this going to be a thing? I don't think you're going to get a true legato when playing in a re-strike of a single key so it wouldn't exhibit this behavior anyway, penciling in the notes, if you need that sound wouldn't you just engage sustain? I'm genuinely curious not trying to be rude.

Do you get the random cutoffs even at 120bpm? None of the pianos I’ve tried at that tempo have the problem

Re when I would need this. One example that comes up a lot is that I will often slice long MIDI notes that are triggering, say a one bar loop or arpeggio, into one bar MIDI notes. This way I’m sure that when I hit play at any random spot in the sequence loops and arpeggios will lock in at the end of that bar. I do this often enough that I have a key command set up to shorten MIDI note durations by one tick so they don’t cut off

…I just realized I posted my 3000th Motunation post today. Woohoo!

[Michael Canavan]

I went ahead and downloaded this to test. It shortens notes randomly with all piano plugins here, EW, NI, IK, and Arturia which is a virtual instrument from what I know, It does not shorten any synthesizer plugin I throw at it.

Side note, if you hold down the Sustain peddle it doesn't shorten the notes.
Logic does not shorten the notes.

I have one question though, when is this going to be a thing? I don't think you're going to get a true legato when playing in a re-strike of a single key so it wouldn't exhibit this behavior anyway, penciling in the notes, if you need that sound wouldn't you just engage sustain? I'm genuinely curious not trying to be rude.

Do you get the random cutoffs even at 120bpm? None of the pianos I’ve tried at the tempo have the problem

Re when I would need this. One example that comes up a lot is that I will often slice long MIDI notes that are triggering, say a one bar loop or arpeggio, into one bar MIDI notes. This way I’m sure that when I hit play at any random spot in the sequence loops and arpeggios will lock in at the end of that bar. I do this often enough that I have a key command set up to shorten MIDI note durations by one tick so they don’t cut off

…I just realized I posted my 3000th Motunation post today. Woohoo!

Yeah that's weird, I loaded the Kontakt Organ and it also doesn't play random notes at 111bpm, but it works at 120? same with piano libraries.

[stubbsonic]

For the people getting no notes, consider how your plugin might handle a note that is zero or 1 tick long.

For those asking why this matters:

I often use DP for composition and arrangement. I quantize note starts and ends so that the durations look right in notation. I mostly edit in the graphic editor, but occasionally view or print notation for various purposes. So playback is often effed up. And I used to like to scrub curtain passages as my way of "processing" compositionally, but I can't do that any more.

If anyone could see my workflows with composition, you'd understand why I'm bugged by lasso/scrub grid snapping, and this stupid cut-off note thing that's been going on for ages.