Sonoma 14.4

[Michael Canavan]

So second Kernal Panic in 14.4 using Kontaktv 7 this time not in Komplete Kontrol, messing with the GUI. Panic then auto restart. Does not name Kontkat in the crash report, but it's obvious now. Sending in a tech support to NI..

It's a big club and growing.

For clarity, it's specific to Kontakt 7, and moving the plugin window to the second monitor here. So the way I can replicate the kernel panic every time is to open DP, open Kontakt, move the plugin interface to the second monitor and click on the plugin interface. I do this all the time, so it's definitely a new "feature" in 14.4 courtesy of the NI (technical debt is our middle name), team.

[James Steele]

M1 systems (like mine) don’t seem to be suffering many of this issues.

That’s exactly what the post from Oeksound says.

Yeah. I’m just used to “hedging” online lest I overlooked something and get called out!

It is a curious thing as to what is different about the M2/M3 chips that causes this.

[cuttime]

FYI:
https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03 ... java-issue

[mikehalloran]

…
For clarity, it's specific to Kontakt 7, and moving the plugin window to the second monitor here. So the way I can replicate the kernel panic every time is to open DP, open Kontakt, move the plugin interface to the second monitor and click on the plugin interface. I do this all the time, so it's definitely a new "feature" in 14.4 courtesy of the NI (technical debt is our middle name), team.

I can confirm this.

After starting DP over Rosetta 2 and adding an instance, then reopening DP in Native, I can add additional instances with the Kontakt GUI in my center monitor only (Apple Studio Display 27" connected via Thunderbolt 3).

Since I have one side monitor connected to my Studio's HDMI port and the other connected via USB-C to HDMI cable, I checked to see if that would make a difference. I also checked through my OWC TB4/3 hub. Nope — anything other than the center monitor crashes with the kernel panic.

I've updated my Support cases with NI, MOTU and Apple.

[Michael Canavan]

Ugh, so IMO it's a bunch of new security features in 14.4 that have tanked randomly various actions that allow third party peripherals. So basically any dongle, hub, monitor, or scripting language that Apple just blithely "forgot about" is having compatibility issues. Hopefully they aren't going to ignore this?

[mikehalloran]

Ugh, so IMO it's a bunch of new security features in 14.4 that have tanked randomly various actions that allow third party peripherals. So basically any dongle, hub, monitor, or scripting language that Apple just blithely "forgot about" is having compatibility issues. Hopefully they aren't going to ignore this?

Apple has told me (without actually telling me) that they have been bombarded with support calls since 14.4 was released and that a hot fix may come out before 14.5. My calls went in less than 24 hours after the release.

At some point, they're going to have to ease up on trying to protect every User from every possibility. It's become an endless game of whack-a-mole that no one ever wins.

[James Steele]

FYI:
https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03 ... java-issue

From the article:
“Since there is no easy way to revert a macOS update…”

THIS is a real pain. As these systems become more complex, especially in the context of a DAW (or video editing suite) with third party hardware and drivers, it would be a positive boon if Apple could somehow improve this… especially as beta testing can’t always catch all of these issues.

[Michael Canavan]

Apple has told me (without actually telling me) that they have been bombarded with support calls since 14.4 was released and that a hot fix may come out before 14.5. My calls went in less than 24 hours after the release.

At some point, they're going to have to ease up on trying to protect every User from every possibility. It's become an endless game of whack-a-mole that no one ever wins.

Yeah I posted in another forum the list of security holes they reported fixing in 14.4, apparently they errored on the side of screwing over their third party compatibility. It is the endless issue with Apple VS PC, that third party hardware and sometimes software is subject to their whims.

So many examples of this: USB 3 encased NVME SSDs do not report SMART settings to Mac OS; so many USB 3 enclosures in general just randomly losing connection to the computer, and unlike Windows, if you have that happen too many times it can mess up the ability to read that drive; Like you mention some powered USB 3 hubs even do not play nice with Mac OS pre 14; and lately they've restricted kernel access for audio interfaces, RME have two drivers now, one you turn of SIP for and one that follows their newer protocol, because they say you get better results with the kernel access one.

Anyway it's not enough to make me switch to Windows, but it's really weird when you think about what Jobs said when asked what he admired about Microsoft and he mentioned their great relationships with developers and hardware companies. I mean their hero said this, you would think this would be of greater importance to them..

Oh and I turn on the M2 just now and everything is fine..

[bayswater]

Anyway it's not enough to make me switch to Windows, but it's really weird when you think about what Jobs said when asked what he admired about Microsoft and he mentioned their great relationships with developers and hardware companies. I mean their hero said this, you would think this would be of greater importance to them..

What would be enough? I’ll be taking a serious look when the time comes. Apple acknowledged problems with their QA process some time ago, but it doesn’t look like anything has happened.

[Michael Canavan]

Anyway it's not enough to make me switch to Windows, but it's really weird when you think about what Jobs said when asked what he admired about Microsoft and he mentioned their great relationships with developers and hardware companies. I mean their hero said this, you would think this would be of greater importance to them..

What would be enough? I’ll be taking a serious look when the time comes. Apple acknowledged problems with their QA process some time ago, but it doesn’t look like anything has happened.

A good friend worked mainly QA for Apple for 20 years at infinite loop until about 10 years ago, He would say it's because he isn't working there anymore.

I think at this point it would be if Microsofts Arm team makes some major breakthroughs on compatibility, and the hardware manufacturers get some decent chips going. That would make me think about Windows, I'm in Bill Gates camp when it comes to touch, and the fact that Apple still will not 100% merge the tech they have for iPad to their OS makes me frustrated, I love using the Slate Raven here to control plugin GUI's on plugins that have touch accessible GUI's, that experience with a laptop and iOS level touch support would be fantastic.

The other elephant, Windows still can be corrupted to the point to where a complete reinstall is necessary. I know people do this with Mac OS, but frankly I have never reinstalled my OS because of some issue, it's always solvable in some other way, but i have had to reinstall Windows on other peoples machines to solve the problems.

[bayswater]

I think at this point it would be if Microsofts Arm team makes some major breakthroughs on compatibility, and the hardware manufacturers get some decent chips going. That would make me think about Windows, I'm in Bill Gates camp when it comes to touch, and the fact that Apple still will not 100% merge the tech they have for iPad to their OS makes me frustrated, I love using the Slate Raven here to control plugin GUI's on plugins that have touch accessible GUI's, that experience with a laptop and iOS level touch support would be fantastic.

The other elephant, Windows still can be corrupted to the point to where a complete reinstall is necessary. I know people do this with Mac OS, but frankly I have never reinstalled my OS because of some issue, it's always solvable in some other way, but i have had to reinstall Windows on other peoples machines to solve the problems.

A complete reinstall is not so bad IMO if it doesn’t happen too often. I’ve had to do this for both. Well integrated touch would be nice, particularly if the OS fades into the background, but maybe what I really want is Snow Leopard that runs 1,000 times faster.

[James Steele]

Good article... especially since there's a section quoting a developer explaining how they missed this issue during beta. From what I read, part of it was they tested on M1 and Intel machines... no M2 or M3.

https://www.production-expert.com/produ ... ng-us-down

[mikehalloran]

Good article... especially since there's a section quoting a developer explaining how they missed this issue during beta. From what I read, part of it was they tested on M1 and Intel machines... no M2 or M3.

https://www.production-expert.com/produ ... ng-us-down

Good article.

We generally test on an M1 Max laptop, an M1 Mac mini, an Intel Mac mini and if problems show up there are a few older Macs that can be pulled out of storage. …

I do a lot of beta testing on my wife’s M1 MacBook Air. I suppose it’s time for me to rethink that.

As the developers who have spoken about this have said, there is no date for a fix, it’s not a good look for Apple, PACE or the developers. On this occasion running the DAW under Rosetta is a work-around, but it feels like this is more by luck than judgement!

Actually, it feels like swimming in molasses.

[James Steele]

Again, it may be wishful thinking but I sure wish Apple could devise a way to let us revert to a previous OS version as painlessly as possible. I installed 14.4 because I’m not recording others professionally. If I was, I wouldn’t have done it, of course. It was just sheer luck that because I had an M1 Mac that I dodged this bullet.

I’ve never seen a processor-specific issue like this before. I guess the takeaway is that developers need to test on M2/M3 machines as well. It also makes me wonder about Apple’s beta testing. Is it possible Apple had ZERO beta testers with M2/M3 Macs doing audio work and owning some iLok-protected plug-ins?

[Michael Canavan]

Well one problem with the bug is it's not consistent, I had some initial hiccups but for a couple days in a row no issues at all, with ilok having to be unplugged and plugged back in, or any peripheral losing contact with the M2 Studio here. Obviously I'm not moving Kontakt 7 to the second monitor though.