Jumping to Mac Studio Seeking advice on USB hub

[waterstrum]

I'm finally going to make the leap from my antique cheese grater to a Mac Studio.
I guess Migration Assistant is not a good idea, so I'll reinstall everything.

One concern I have is USB. On my Mac Pro, I have a USB 3 card with 5 ports in addition to the onboard ports.
I probably have 40 USB devices connected, using several hubs. Synths, external effects, peripherals, etc.

Looks like the Mac Studio has only 2 USB ports.
Is there enough bandwidth to handle all of my devices?
Any recommendations on a hub? I guess I can daisy chain the multiple hubs I already have, but that seems clunky for a new system.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Also, any advice on moving everything over to the new machine would be great.

Thanks!

[tremo]

The first accessory I bought for my Mac Studio was an OWC Thunderbolt dock. I think they have several models, but the one I have gives you 4 extra USB-A ports on its back, and 2 ports on the front (one USB-A and one USB-C). I leave the front ports open for easy temporary access. My dock is pretty well loaded-up, and it's been flawless.

I also got this 7-port hub for more doodads:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... b_3_0.html

I like the fact that the ports are switchable. I have stuff like iLok, a USB stick with Waves and Plugin Alliance authorizations, Mac and MIDI keyboards, Presonus Faderport and Atom hooked up. Again, it's been working without problems.

[HCMarkus]

Remember that some or all of the USB-C ports on Macs are TB and USB; you just might need a USB Hub (or two) with a USB-C connection to the computer. Depending on which version of the Mac Studio you buy, the front panel ports are USB or TB/USB.

I have an M1 Ultra, so the front ports are TB/USB. In my application, the front-panel TB came in very handy as the closest to my TB-connected 828ES audio interface, allowing me to reach the interface with a three-meter TB2 cable. Thanks to MIke Halloran for reminding me TB1 (as on the 828ES) works great with a TB2 cable. I just checked... looks like there are no TB2 three-meter cables readily available these days. The choice is now the $150 Apple TB three-meter TB4 cable. MOTU TB Interfaced will still require the Apple TB Adaptor. USB interface connection may be the most practical way to go.

I have managed to avoid buying a Dock, but found that using too many unpowered USB Hubs can cause issues with drive mounting at boot up. Even powered USB-connected hard drives (in my case, Seagate External 3.5" HDs) seem to place some load on USB ports. USB Bandwidth will most likely not be your issue. I have something on the order of 20 USB devices connected to my Mac Studio using two powered and three passive Hubs.

[mikehalloran]

Although all USB-C ports on the Studio are TB3/4/USB4, that will not be true on most hubs—read the specs and know before you buy which port is which.

Many hubs will advertise USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (old name USB 3.2) 1550Gb/s over USB-C but only Windows supports this. Apple does not support 2 Lane USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 over USB-C unless the port also supports TB3/USB4.

The Apple Studio Display has a hub built in. Only one of the four USB-C ports supports TB and it is required for hooking up to your Mac. The other three are USB 3.2 Gen 2 (old name USB 3.1) and support 1000Gb/s over 1 Lane. I have verified backward compatibility to USB 2/1.1 on all USB-C ports of the Studio and Studio Display.

Thunderbolt is certified and licensed by Intel. Thunderbolt 3/4 is based on the USB4 spec and a few of us have verified that, on a Mac, USB4 devices perform the same. There is no speed difference—a TB4 port allows multiple TB3 devices on a hub and has a higher charging Voltage. The max data transfer for TB3/4/USB4 is 2800 Gb/s over 4 Lanes, 1550 over 2 Lanes or 1000 over 1 Lane. Read the fine print on any external device to see what you are getting. 2 Lane performance can also be achieved on a Thunderbolt 2 drive connected via the Apple TB2–TB3 adapter.

The last thing about hubs is that they can allow you to connect additional monitors over HDMI or USB-C to HDMI cables. You can't exceed the total number of monitors your Studio supports (Max or Ultra makes a difference) but having additional ports may be more convenient.

I ordered this hub on sale from OWC before I received my Studio but since my Studio Display has those three extra ports, it's still sitting in the box.
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB4HUB5P/

My iLok, old SD card reader and the occasional flash drive still sit in a powered Anker USB 2 hub connected to one of my USB-A ports. My interfaces connect via USB-C printer cables. These only support USB 2/1.1. Though all of the Studio/Studio Display ports support USB 2, not all 3rd party USB-C cables do (!?!?!). Core Audio and Core MIDI support USB 2/1.1 only.

[James Steele]

I got this one:

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB4DOCK/

More expensive, but very happy with it and was only one I saw that actually spec'd ports as TB4 40GB/s.

[mikehalloran]

I got this one:

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB4DOCK/

More expensive, but very happy with it and was only one I saw that actually spec'd ports as TB4 40GB/s.

Had I bought yours, I could retire my Anker USB 2 hub. Ah well...

Although yours has more ports, the one I bought specs the same. It shows four TB4 ports but one is required for uplink so it really has only three TB4 plus one USB-A that supports 3.2 gen 2 (was USB 3.1).

By the time I got my Studio, I was past the return date so it sits on a shelf but one never knows what future needs might be, right?

Screenshot 2024-01-14 at 11.38.32 AM.png (1 MiB) Viewed 1147 times

[nk_e]

Hoping to jump to a Studio this year.

I have a need for an outrageous number of USB type A connections from keyboards, various pieces of music equipment / controllers, my older monitors still require a separate USB connection, etc. Most of the stuff is low data rate, but the proliferation of USB connection in the studio is crazy.

Currently I have three 10 port USB hubs (2 USB 3 gen 1 and one USB 3) plugged into three of the USB ports on my iMacPro. (The fourth is used for a direct connection to an audio device.) The four TB connection are used for other things that require a “tight” connection (like to my main MOTU interface, external drives, etc.) one f those TB ports has a TB Hub that itself has other USB A and USB C peripherals attached.

IIRC, I sat down once and did a rough estimation of the max data throughput required by each USB 3 hubs if all connected devices were pumping at full rate simultaneously and the numbers looked ok for hanging a hub off of each connector. I can’t remember if I assumed each connector had its own bus or if two connectors shared a bus, but I have not run into any obvious problems AFAIK.

So, how do (or would) you attach so many USB peripherals? Am I approaching this in the right way?

[HCMarkus]

Am I approaching this in the right way?

I'd say yes, probably.

If enough of the hubs are powered, you might need a couple of USB C Male to USB A Female adaptors (I'm not familiar with iMac Pro port layout) to move over to a Mc Studio. As noted I my last post, while using multiple hubs, power is the only issue I've run into with my Mac Studio.

[Michael Canavan]

You all make me feel sane about the number of hubs I have connected, as in, you're almost as bad as I am.

I've got two OWC multi port hubs connected to the thunderbolt ports in the Mac Studio, one TB2 and one TB4 hub. I also have a 6 port USB C hub connected to the front TB4 port. On the OWC hubs besides drives and controllers etc. I have a 16 port USB 3 hub, and a 4 port USB 1 hub. So I guess that's 5 hubs of various types. I've had no issues to speak of. IMO the OWC hubs are worth it, and only the 6 and 4 port USB hubs are not powered, the 4 port is really only for a USB switch for a wired keyboard etc.
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-thunderbolt-dock
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB2DK14PSB/

16 port hub:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G8 ... =UTF8&th=1

[waterstrum]

Thanks for all of the great replies!
I just counted and I have 38 USB devices hooked up.
Sounds like I'll be O.K. with the multiple powered hubs I'm using with my old machine.

Hey Michael, is DP running well on your Mac Studio?
There should be lots of headroom for multiple VIs and track processing.
Are you finding it to be powerful enough?

Thanks!

[HCMarkus]

Hey Michael, is DP running well on your Mac Studio?
There should be lots of headroom for multiple VIs and track processing.
Are you finding it to be powerful enough?

Thanks!

Not Michael, but let me assure you: ANY Mac Studio is going to completely blow away your cheese grater when it comes to performance with DP

If you are not yet on DP11, I'd encourage you to upgrade it and your plugins so you can run Apple Silicon Native as completely as possible. Although Rosetta2 is amazing and perfectly suitable for your typical office applications, you will wring the most performance from your DAW while running AS-Native. At this point in time, there are only a few plugins that still require Rosetta2.

[Michael Canavan]

Hey Michael, is DP running well on your Mac Studio?
There should be lots of headroom for multiple VIs and track processing.
Are you finding it to be powerful enough?

It's more than powerful enough, I can talk about the caveats, but they're all mostly just hiccups in Sonoma etc. So first off DP11 is performing really really well on Apple Silicon, I get 140 tracks of Diva in a stress test, just as many as super lean Reaper, the DAW that usually skunks the rest in these tests. The caveats are IMO mostly Chicken Little things:

Early on I was noticing some dropouts, I went down the rabbit hole and ran into Blue Cat Audios blog post about how their multi core capable plugins were running into issues with Efficiency cores not relinquishing control to Performance cores in his mind causing dropouts etc. IMO this wasn't the case with me, what it turned out to be is plugins not updated for the last couple Mac OS's causing spiking. So, currently most plugins are updated and working well, but there are a few that can cause issues. It looks like mostly the orchestral mock up crowd is covered, after initial glitches Kontakt has been updated a couple times since Sonoma came out to make up for their initial disaster update, Opus asked to be updated etc. etc. I have some plugins that are long in the tooth like Amplitube, MPC2, etc. that could use some love, are most likely to be spiky etc. but all is good in general.

The rabbit hole with Blue Cat was updating to Sonoma because they thought that would solve their issue, but multi core plugins are rare, and honestly for the most part it's a bad idea to hand over control of core allotment to plugins, that can be handled just fine by the OS and in the case of some DAWs, the DAW. So all the regular issues one might have with updating to an OS as soon as it comes out happened for me, spiky plugins, plugins crashing DP etc. Those are for the most part gone.

[mikehalloran]

I had a problem with USB peripherals waking from sleep on my iMac Pro if connected through a hub. The Anker I have now was the least problematic — meaning that I had to unplug and reconnect the hub less often than others. The usual symptom was "This iLok device cannot be found" so I'd have to do it again. Being handicapped and having those USB-A connections in the back was no fun.

It's possible that Apple has finally solved the USB port sleeping issue that's been around since the G5 — or not. The iMac Pro's supported USB 3.0 (now called USB 3.1 gen 1) while the Studio's USB-A ports are supposedly the same but I haven't had my hub go down once.

My keyboard and interface were always connected directly and never gave me this grief. Having eight ports on the Studio (+ 3 more on the Studio Display), that isn't changing but...

I've had my Studio since October and that Anker hub has not gone down on me. The iLok and a multi-card reader are the only permanent residents but I plug my CD burner, BIAB drive, flash and USB drives etc. into it now and then. I have the Anker plugged into one of the Studio's USB-A ports.

I have a bunch of these adapters sitting on the end of USB 2 cables and drives with no problems.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CVX3516/re ... top_0?th=1

There are still compatibility issues with cables so check the specs. Core Audio/MIDI and printers require USB 2/1.1 480kb/s. I have confirmed that the Apple TB4 cable (shipped with my Studio Display) and this USB-4 cable both support USB 2.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BQ1 ... asin_title

TB4/3 cables normally don't support HDMI. I could not get my DisplayPort monitors to sleep properly but my LGs also have HDMI ports—USB-C to HDMI cables are inexpensive—problem solved.

[waterstrum]

Just a follow up on my USB situation.

I've been slowly moving in to the Mac Studio and it is amazing.
After 12 years on the cheese grater, I am in awe and wonder.
I can legitimately say it is "snappier".

I got the aforementioned 16 port USB hub and am using a couple of my old hubs.
All my USB peripherals are working fine.
Thanks for all of the suggestions.

It is a whole new world for me.
Too much fun!

[HCMarkus]

After 12 years on the cheese grater, I am in awe and wonder.

Told ya'.