61-key options: Nektar P6 vs GXP61 vs Korg KeyStage ?

[stubbsonic]

I gig with a 20 year old Kurzweil K2661. It's insanely versatile.

In the heavy-duty case it weighs over 60 lbs. It relies on Smart Media cards (or XD with adapters) which are slow to save & load, and it has limited RAM. It's also getting long in the tooth, so I'm thinking about a much lighter replacement for when it stops working or I can't shlep it. I certainly can't fly it anywhere easily.

GOALS:
1. 61 keys- which helps me stay on my vocal mic while I play
2. Excellent velocity response-- nice feeling range, excellent resolution/response
3. Nice semi weighted key feel without spongy slop at bottom of travel.
4. Excellent MIDI configurability.
5. Durable build quality
6.. I prefer "piano shaped keys" a la P6.
7. For many years, I've wanted Polyphonic AT, but I don't care as much at the moment.

Nektar claims their GXP61 has really good velocity response, and the reviews I've seen confirm this. Reviews say the keys are mechanically clacky.

The P6 is reportedly comparable in terms of velocity response. Might be overkill with DAW integration features I'd probably not use. But I like the piano key shape more.

I was considering the NI Kontrol S Mk3, but I'm turned off by the lack of external MIDI configurability.

The Korg KeyStage is also interesting, but I'm not sure if it has good velocity response, and I don't know if it is rugged enough for gigs.

I know I've been over this same topic before, so feel free to ignore, but I thought I'd check in here. I'd appreciate any opinions.

[HCMarkus]

I know you want 61. I just couldn't live without 88 hammer action keys (and also love an unweighted keyboard resting on top of the 88).

So, this post is, for all practical purposes, a useless one.

[stubbsonic]

I appreciate it, nonetheless. I think that would be pretty ideal for my home, if I had a bigger room. Also nice for gigs, if I enjoyed shlepping more.

I've been leaning toward the cheapest and simplest rig, the GPX61. Nektar says the really tweaked the velocity response, and it seems they've given it appropriate priority.

The P6 has a bunch of features I don't care that much about. The Korg might be good- I like the built-in audio interface feature. That's clever, but it is fixed at 16/44.1.

After watching a few more reviews, it sounds like people are generally pleased with the GXP and aren't too weirded out by those weirdly shaped black keys.

[stubbsonic]

Just ordered the GXP61. I think it will be fine. Will report here, just for grins.

As my "alternative brain wiring" so inclines me, I've been obsessed with Polyphonic Aftertouch for decades. And the fact that affordable options (Kontrol S Mk3 and KeyStage) come along and I pass on them-- I'm going to take that as a sign of some hint of maturity-- which, let's just say, is a day late and a dollar short.

[James Steele]

I have a Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2 that I no longer need since I bought a refub S88 Mk2 when NI was blowing them out on Reverb.com. Still, as was mentioned, it's a specialized controller and seems that it doesn't make a very good general purpose MIDI controller. IIRC, you can't change certain parameters without connecting it up to a computer of some kind. On top of it, from what I also remember, the CC# assignment for the mod wheel and the controller strip are only GLOBAL!!! You can not set up different configurations that can have those assigned to different CC#s depending on your needs. Honestly... pretty lame.

However, if you like using the Komplete Kontrol plugin... and don't plan on using it for living gigging, these are cool. I should also mention that the Mix Mode with DP works really well and gives you control of faders and pans and you can even see levels on the keyboards screens. Had I know it would work this well, I might have gotten an S49 Mk2, as when in composing mode, I imagine it would be adequate. Might even still do that and see if I can figure out a way to swap out my Avid S3 for a S49 Mk2 directly in front of me when composing... then swap the S3 back when I'm in Mixing Mode.

(Just checked and the asking prices for used S49 Mk2 keyboards are still within the realm of fantasy. I paid $425 for my clean refurb S88 Mk2 from NI. No way I'm paying $325+ shipping for an S49 Mk2. Dream on.)

[stubbsonic]

Yea, the Kontrol S Mk3 was disqualified because if its lack of configurability. I have a Kurzweil PC3K7 in the studio (barely fits). Does what I need.

If this Nektar KXP61 works out ok, I'll be chuffed because it's only $230 and is light weight. Big if, I know.

I need extra footswitch pedals so I think I'll need to use the audiofront MIDI Expression.

[stubbsonic]

The Nektar GXP61 arrived today. Here are a few first impressions:

The physical/mechanical feel of the keys is a nice semi-weighted action.

As others have reported, there is a bit more mechanical noise from the keys, but not too bad.

The velocity response is full resolution and has a nice range.

The aftertouch is far too sensitive. Loud playing generate quite a bit of Aftertouch messages. No way to turn off.

The pitch bend is 7-bit (not MIDI standard 14-bit). It generates 14-bit type values, but they move in steps of 128 (LSB is always zero)

No desktop configuration tool, no downloadable PDF manual. Most (?) settings are done on the keyboard using those little printed functions above the keys. Again, pretty typical for these bottom tier controllers.

Bonus features, like note-repeat are harmless.

Only two pedal inputs (one switch, one expression). I will supplement with an AudioFront MIDI Expression iO- giving me 4 extra pedal ins each of which can be either expression (even 14-bit!) or dual switch.

I've written up a more complete review on my site:

https://jonstubbsmusic.com/2024/01/16/n ... 61-review/

[HCMarkus]

One thing I did like about the Nektar keyboards I tried was the fact you didn't have to lean into the keyboard to get Aftertouch going, and AT is something I really like to use in unweighted keyboards. The P series Nektar keyboards had an AT Delay function that would help avoid spurious AT messages... you might look for that on your new keyboard Stubbs.

Regardless, DP's filter will take care of unwanted AT if you find it a problem.

And, yes, the Audiofront stuff is great! I use one of their four port USB Pedal Interfaces live and have for several years now.

Note that the Yamaha FC7 works stock with the Audiofront, but I found that changing the wiring improved recognition by the Audiofront interface. IIR, I swapped the Tip and Sleeve conductors. I did that to use the FC7 with my Arturia Keylab 61 mkII and found that the Audiofront was happier that way, too. I'm gonna' take and post a pic of my FC7 mod. Really nice for road work.

Edit: Here's that pic:

IMG_0552.jpeg (2.38 MiB) Viewed 4612 times

Drilling thru the metal foot plate of the FC7 is not the easiest task, first you've got to get the rubber out of the way (I used a razor knife), but I've managed to convert three of these pedals without a failure. Nice thing is, any TRS cable will connect the pedal to any keyboard, and if polarity is wrong, a special cable can make things right again. And no more, "Oh sh*t, the cable is intermittent..." it is field replaceable now.

Edit 2: I should point out that the mod impacts pedal throw if you prefer the "more forward inclined" setting on the FC7. I like the setting where the pedal rocks further back, so works great for me.

[stubbsonic]

I'm hoping I can set the AT to send to nothing Or maybe I can install a little switch. But you're right, it won't affect my sequencing. This keyboard is for live. I just don't want AT messages clogging up the data stream,

The newer MIDI Expression iO's can send 14-bit NRPNs. I asked if it could work with 14-bit CC's (about a year ago) and he said no. I reached out on the forum to check again, and within two days, he did a new build of his beta config app, and added it. NICE!!

Cool idea with the FC7. I'm guessing you must have changed the angle somehow, because my FC7 would chop that connector right off if I pushed into the spring zone. If I try that mod, I might use a barrel type female connector, and glue it sideways along the front of the pedal.

I have a couple pedals with jacks already on them. And I made one cross-wired cable that is deliberately TRS to RTS, respectively. Not as easy as a switch, but not bad.

[HCMarkus]

I'm guessing you must have changed the angle somehow, because my FC7 would chop that connector right off if I pushed into the spring zone. If I try that mod, I might use a barrel type female connector, and glue it sideways along the front of the pedal.

I prefer my FC7 in the further rocked back position, so no interference with pedal travel.

[stubbsonic]

I prefer my FC7 in the further rocked back position, so no interference with pedal travel.

There were two things that made me seek out a used FC7, one is that clever spring-loaded zone at the toe end. and the other is just that it has a big sweep, making it easier to control (in theory). What I wasn't expecting was how I'd need to do yoga for 5 years to get my ankle, calf & shin flexible enough to use it.

[stubbsonic]

I'm going to add a TRS female barrel to the front of the pedal-- but was thinking I might add a switch to move the wiper between tip & ring for another device I have. I think a DPDT switch should do the trick-- but as I don't do this kind of thing often, I'll have to draw a picture before I commit to tin & lead.

[HCMarkus]

I'm going to add a TRS female barrel to the front of the pedal-- but was thinking I might add a switch to move the wiper between tip & ring for another device I have. I think a DPDT switch should do the trick-- but as I don't do this kind of thing often, I'll have to draw a picture before I commit to tin & lead.

Make sure it is the tip and ring you want to swap... IRRC, it was the tip and shield, but certainty is not present on this subject. I had three pedals, two modified, and just used the one that worked the way I wanted as a template for the other two.

For a switch DPDT will do it, with poles crossed between positions. Where are you gonna' put the switch? Just carrying a (clearly marked) crossover cable might be simpler and not subject to accidental activation...

[stubbsonic]

Make sure it is the tip and ring you want to swap... IRRC, it was the tip and shield, but certainty is not present on this subject.

...

For a switch DPDT will do it, with poles crossed between positions. Where are you gonna' put the switch? Just carrying a (clearly marked) crossover cable might be simpler and not subject to accidental activation...

The two different devices I have either expect wiper on tip or wiper on ring. And the crossover cable I've used doesn't change the sleeve wire at all.

I drew my picture and have the pedal's tip & ring going to each of the two lugs on one end, then connect those lugs criss-cross to the two lugs on the other end. And each of the output jack's tip & ring are connected to the center lugs. Good point about accidental switching. It's a fairly small switch, and it'll be on the front side panel next to the barrel. I can add a little bumper to make it harder to accidentally switch. Good call. Thanks!! Will post a pic when I get it done.

[stubbsonic]

I soldered the shield of the pedal straight to the sleeve of the jack. I soldered pedal's tip & ring, the jack's tip & ring, and the criss-cross jumpers all to the switch. Checked it with a meter. I've glued the jack & switch to the housing. Once that's dry/cured, I'll test with gear. then shroud the wires and guts of switch with Sugru and call it done.

jack-switch.png (353.61 KiB) Viewed 4238 times