What has happened to DP

[Antonio]

For many many years I have been a faithful user of DP. I remember the time when DP was lauded every year by the experts and received, also every year, prizes for best DAW, best this, best that, etc. But years have gone by and during a long time I stopped reading computer magazines. I just wrote music with DP and Reason. Now, since about six months ago or so I let the geek out of the cage and I cannot stop reading and watching stuff on computer music. To my dismay I see DP has fallen into a kind of abyss. Nobody cares about DP! It's never in the ten most popular or interesting DAWs and it's never mentioned as a contender for anything (except for scoring). What the hell happened? I'm still using DP of course but, I have to admit, a lot of things in DP start to smell old. Both the instruments and the plugins have been totally surpassed by some old and some recent contenders. The hardware is perfectly fine and pristine so I won't talk about it, but the software... no good news for a long time. What does MOTU think about this state of affairs, what do the experts that regularly post on this site think? Can some one tell me there's going to be a complete revamp of DP to bring it back to stardom?

[James Steele]

FYI, posts like your lamenting the state of DP, etc., the sky is falling, etc. have been posted to this board since the dawn of time practically. So much so that I created a special forum for it "MOTU Theoretical Discussions, Gripes, Petitions & Off Topic." For some reason I you posted in a hardware forum? Your post has been moved to the appropriate forum where it belongs.

[James Steele]

What does MOTU think about this state of affairs...

You'd have to ask MOTU about that one rather than post here. This board is not run by MOTU.

As for everything else you mention, DP 11.3 just came out with a lot of fixes and I'm getting work done. I also have Cubase, Pro Tools, and Logic on my Mac Studio and I still prefer to use DP. But I'm just that way. I bought a Suzuki motorcycle when all the cool kids had Harleys, so I'm the wrong person to opine.

[Antonio]

Why the f.... you have to pretend to be a wise a... Why don't you go and write some music for a change.

[James Steele]

Why the f.... you have to pretend to be a wise a... Why don't you go and write some music for a change.

Haha. Bye bye.

[Michael Canavan]

I wrote a whole reply and before I posted it I saw OP's melt down and the banhammer!
Anyway since the question was asked, it's still actively being developed, MOTU are hosting weekly webinars on DP and have been for 3 years, that doesn't say they're forgetting about DP or that it's abandoned.

https://motu.com/en-us/products/softwar ... vZAa0Y1S_I

The Webinars are also up on Facebook for a day or two in one or two in a few groups:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/31959118409

https://www.facebook.com/groups/270005501025380

[James Steele]

Yeah. I lost my cool. I really didn’t need that at the moment.

[Michael Canavan]

Yeah. I lost my cool. I really didn’t need that at the moment.

Nah, there's no reason for him to go from zero to fifty online like that. I hang out a bit over at KVR, and while I like it, it's a constant flame war there, gets old.

[stubbsonic]

I was reading this thread, scrolling down, then the OP bursts into flames and I'm like: "Yea, no.". Next post, James: "Yea, bye."

My long journey with Performer/DP has been a mix of awe, gratitude, and frustration. I'm in awe of the feature set which has grown with me, while still giving me deep compositional tools that are never dumbed down. I'm grateful for the work that has gone into keep DP working across many evolutions of O.S.'s and chips. And, I've been frustrated by bugs & crashes (some having gone on for a long time), as well as some workflow gripes.

What has NEVER bothered me is whether or not "The Industry" sits up and takes notice. If "The Industry" thinks Logic and Pro Tools are the state-of-the-art, they can have them. As for recent loop & groove based tools, I'm impressed that MOTU has managed to integrate them into DP in a pretty seamless way.

[bayswater]

There is some kernel of an idea in the original post. When I was looking about for a replacement for Cubase, and decided Logic was not it, DP was more in your face; ads on the cover of every music magazine, always in the “DAW of the year” articles, and so on.

But as those who have done a stint in marketing know, there are many approaches. One is blowing your horn and hoping someone notices. Another is talking quietly with people who make decisions that matter to your success. As Jon suggested, MOTU was also a bit late and seems a bit lukewarm on the loops and grooves bandwagon. But there is a strategy there and MOTU appears to be sticking with it.

So I can see why the OP raises the concern, but insulting anyone, let alone the moderator, on your second post, is not that helpful.

[James Steele]

There is some kernel of an idea in the original post. When I was looking about for a replacement for Cubase, and decided Logic was not it, DP was more in your face; ads on the cover of every music magazine, always in the “DAW of the year” articles, and so on.

But as those who have done a stint in marketing know, there are many approaches. One is blowing your horn and hoping someone notices. Another is talking quietly with people who make decisions that matter to your success. As Jon suggested, MOTU was also a bit late and seems a bit lukewarm on the loops and grooves bandwagon. But there is a strategy there and MOTU appears to be sticking with it.

So I can see why the OP raises the concern, but insulting anyone, let alone the moderator, on your second post, is not that helpful.

I'm all for discussion in the appropriate forum, which is why I moved it here. I have three other DAWs (Pro Tools, Cubase 13 Pro, Logic Pro) on my Mac Studio and I've been able to take a look at all of them. It's cliché, but they all do have their strengths and weaknesses. In fact, it was concerns like the "dearly departed" OP's that prompted me to install the other DAWs. I felt I needed to have a backup "just in case." And I've found many instances in which another DAW does something better than DP. A couple jump to mind: "freezing" tracks in Pro Tools seems to be much more elegant and useful than in DP. PT's hardware insert plugin is much more reliable. But DP also has a lot of strengths and I find I have not been tempted to move projects from DP over to any of the other DAWs. I just know DP too well and it's comfortable and efficient for me. To each their own.

When I referred to my choice of purchasing a motorcycle, my point was that if you buy a Harley you absolutely can't go wrong. They are the "Pro Tools" of motorcycles. You will feel validated. Others will validated you. You have jackets, T-shirts, bathmats, shower curtains, beef jerky all with the logo on it. People who don't ride will tell you how cool your bike is. Not saying they're not excellent motorcycles. I got a Suzuki years ago. A LOT less expensive than the Harley. Guess what? I was still able to ride it out on the same roads... have a great weekend ride... it was reliable... I enjoyed it. I just didn't get the constant validation for my choice. I think there's a bit of an inferiority complex you have to learn to overcome to go against the grain. We're not going to get the "attaboys" that other DAWs get. If you're someone who is uncomfortable that yours isn't the most popular DAW, and that's important to you, than maybe you should switch over if it makes you feel better.

In all fairness, MOTU could do a better job of promoting it and they do really need to shore up some basic nuts and bolts features. Until recently the EUCON support was really shaky and it's gotten a lot better but even basic capabilities are either non-existent (can't assign a track to a track group with a EUCON control surface) or so poorly implemented as to be useless (no hierarchy of plug-ins when adding a plug-in to an insert... you have to scroll through EVERY plug-in on your system).

Honestly, I always had hoped MOTU would stop trying to make DP all things to all users. I felt that way when they added all the guitar amp models and stomp boxes years ago. I also kind of feel that way about the looping stuff and clips. It seems like they're trying to out-Ableton Ableton. That ship has probably sailed. Pro Tools is trying to do that too.

Oh well... it's an interesting conversation. What I'd rather see is particular DAWs excel at certain things and the industry come together and develop something like OMF that would really work and allow users to move projects seamlessly from one DAW to another. I guess a common plugin format would be required too. I'm really digressing now so I'll stop.

Oh... last thing I'll say is I'm not a moderator. I'm the owner. I pay for the hosting of this site out of my own pocket and have since the beginning decades ago in the early 90s, so honestly if the OP wants to get up in my face here, it's a bad decision. Now he can go over to another site and trash me there. It's been years since I've had that happen, but I'm no stranger to it. Internet forum world is make believe. LOL

[daniel.sneed]

[...] I just know DP too well and it's comfortable and efficient for me. To each their own.[...]If you're someone who is uncomfortable that yours isn't the most popular DAW, and that's important to you, than maybe you should switch over if it makes you feel better.

Since 2002, all of my DAW projects (composing, recording, dramatic shows) with DP have been some sort of dream comes true. So, to my standards, DP is just huge.
Kudos to Motu for making such a great musical tool.
And, once again, thanx very much to you, James, for giving us Motunation, which is such an invaluable place for learning and helping each other.

[stubbsonic]

Agreed.

And thanks for that excellent post, James. I really like your Harley comparison and the "atta-boy" thing. Spot on.

[Michael Canavan]

Honestly, I always had hoped MOTU would stop trying to make DP all things to all users. I felt that way when they added all the guitar amp models and stomp boxes years ago. I also kind of feel that way about the looping stuff and clips. It seems like they're trying to out-Ableton Ableton. That ship has probably sailed. Pro Tools is trying to do that too.

IMO there are two types of DAWs, the do everything DAWs like DP, Cubase, Logic, Reaper, and the specialized DAWs like Live, Bitwig, Reason, Renoise, MPC2, FL Studio etc.
The main point of a DAW like DP is to be able to get everything done in one place, so it's not surprising they add in Clips, stomp boxes, MPE, etc. etc. DAWs like DP, Logic etc. have a solution for every musical scenario, whereas DAWs like Live are really great at a few things. There's no native SysEx support in Live, for years there was no polyphonic afterouch available on MIDI tracks in Live, but there is an NKS style mapping of parameters to various hardware controllers so every time you pull up Diva it maps the controls you set up previously etc. No Score editor, but instant and fast time stretching etc.

Point is DP is doing what I would expect from it, Cubase and Logic are its natural competitors, and both of those do the same, offer solutions for any perceived problem, nature of the beast I would say. I guess the issue is and always will be whether parts that need extra work get attention? That's even true of newer DAWs like Bitwig though, the screensets in that DAW are absolute garabage, half thought out etc. and an 8 year old DAW has "feature creep" issues that people associate with Cubase and DP etc.

Oh well... it's an interesting conversation. What I'd rather see is particular DAWs excel at certain things and the industry come together and develop something like OMF that would really work and allow users to move projects seamlessly from one DAW to another. I guess a common plugin format would be required too. I'm really digressing now so I'll stop.

Actually that's in the works, some developer that got hired by Bitwig had already been working on a new plugin format called CLAP, and it's open source, not tied to a particular computer or DAW maker. There has been some in roads already, notably U-He and Fabfilter have released their plugins in CLAP. Reaper and Bitwig plus some tinier DAWs are already supporting it.
https://cleveraudio.org

The adjacent development is DAWproject, which does exactly what you suggest, it ports projects between DAWs, again so far it's Bitwig, Reaper, and Studio One that have implemented it in their DAWs.
https://www.soundonsound.com/news/bitwi ... ect-format

I do hope these both take off, especially CLAP, it's something that IMO should have happened 15 years ago when Steinberg announced VST3, and Apple had AU for Mac only..

It would be great to see MOTU jump in on this.

[James Steele]

Oh well... it's an interesting conversation. What I'd rather see is particular DAWs excel at certain things and the industry come together and develop something like OMF that would really work and allow users to move projects seamlessly from one DAW to another. I guess a common plugin format would be required too. I'm really digressing now so I'll stop.

Actually that's in the works, some developer that got hired by Bitwig had already been working on a new plugin format called CLAP, and it's open source, not tied to a particular computer or DAW maker. There has been some in roads already, notably U-He and Fabfilter have released their plugins in CLAP. Reaper and Bitwig plus some tinier DAWs are already supporting it.
https://cleveraudio.org

The adjacent development is DAWproject, which does exactly what you suggest, it ports projects between DAWs, again so far it's Bitwig, Reaper, and Studio One that have implemented it in their DAWs.
https://www.soundonsound.com/news/bitwi ... ect-format

I do hope these both take off, especially CLAP, it's something that IMO should have happened 15 years ago when Steinberg announced VST3, and Apple had AU for Mac only..

It would be great to see MOTU jump in on this.

I'm not as excited about CLAP. I could be totally wrong, but I don't see it ever catching on in widespread use. Apple has their own Audio Units.... Steinberg/Yahama has VST3... there's a "Not Invented Here" mentality often times and no incentive for these large corporations to go to an open standard.

I am very hopeful about DAWproject. I didn't know about it. I think it would be wonderful to be able to seamlessly move a project from DAW to DAW and utilize the strengths of each one. For example, compose in DP... move to Pro Tools for mixdown, etc.