Need advice on replacing Mac desktop

[donreynolds]

Hi
I have been absent for quite a while but now retired and want to spend more time recording.
I am looking for suggestions from the knowledgeable community to give me advice on what to purchase in order to update to the latest DP version that has sufficient in/outputs connection.
My current Mac Pro still works with DP 9 but the OS cannot be updated further
I have the slate subscription and want to take advantage of the SSL add ons

Any specific model suggested? Speed, cores, RAM, etc? Any links would be appreciated
I have looked at the Mac Studio, M1, M2 max and ultra. I just don’t know what would be sufficient RAM and cores to record and not get bogged down

Or is there a less expensive model that would be comparable?
I am going to buy refurbished, not new.

Thank you very much for any advice given

[HCMarkus]

Hi Donny. Congrats on the retirement!

I am disinclined to recommend the iMac due to the fact the display is tied to the CPU.

With that point made, I will simply say ANY current Mac will be like a golden ray of glorious sun compared to the dark night your old Mac Pro represents.

Budget for adequate RAM; how much really depends on your workflow. I'd hesitate to recommend less than 16GB, although 8GB will certainly run plenty of projects. What you buy is what you will live with; RAM is not user-upgradeable.

Consider connectivity; unless you are willing to spend several arms and legs on Apple's internal SSD, you will be using external storage. You will need enough ports (via hubs or docks perhaps) regardless of whether storage is spinning rust or solid state.

Unless you are running HUGE projects (and quite possibly, even if you are) The Mac Mini M2 Pro with 12‑core CPU, 19-core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine, 16GB unified memory and 512GB to 1TB SSD storage would seem like a good starting point. Fewer CPU cores would probably work fine, too, if budget is a real issue. If doing a lot of VI work, you could go to 32GB RAM. Bigger internal storage would be convenient, but external is a lot more cost-effective.

So much has been written on the subject. Peruse the threads here and around the Internet. I predict you will be pleased regardless of which model of Apple Silicon you ultimately choose.

[donreynolds]

Thanks!!
Yep, gonna enjoy retirement now and compare, record and already been playing out as a solo artist now
Looking forward to it
Thanks for the recommendation
My budget is 3-4k ish.
I have a lot of older material stored on internal drives in my Mac Pro. I am hoping to transfer the files to external drives so I don’t lose them.

I wasn’t sure if the minis were sufficient. That’s why I was looking at the Mac Studio also

I did want the M2 model though. I read the M2 ultra was very good.

[HCMarkus]

Thanks!!
Yep, gonna enjoy retirement now and compare, record and already been playing out as a solo artist now
Looking forward to it
Thanks for the recommendation
My budget is 3-4k ish.
I have a lot of older material stored on internal drives in my Mac Pro. I am hoping to transfer the files to external drives so I don’t lose them.

I wasn’t sure if the minis were sufficient. That’s why I was looking at the Mac Studio also

I did want the M2 model though. I read the M2 ultra was very good.

You could buy the M2 Ultra for that money, but you'd still need storage. If it all fits within the budget, why not go big? Worst-case is you have power you don't need. But if other things are also calling out to your dollars, a more restrained approach might be the better choice.

You can definitely pull your old project data onto external drives. If you don't have USB3 on the old Mac, USB2 will do the job; it will just take awhile. Sneaker net works great... just plug your new external drives into the old Mac. Hopefully your OS is current enough to allow all drives to be formatted APFS. If not, you might have to copy data twice; once with a Mac OS Extended formatted drive connected to the old Mac, then using the new Mac, to copy to an APFS-formatted drive. You can certainly use the old formatting with new Macs, but APFS is the current approach, so probably better to start there.

I recently put all my Archive music on a Seagate 14TB External, about 1/2 full at this point. I also run an 8TB for current Long-term storage. As data is added to Long-term storage, it is also added to the Archive drive. Another 8TB Long-term storage drive houses older data. Cloud backup (BackBlaze) is also used for all data. Time Machine backs up all current project files, which reside on my Mac's internal storage and are copied to an external SATA (USB-connected) SSD at the end of every session. Periodically, data is moved to Long-term storage and removed from internal and backup drives.

[mikehalloran]

Hey, Don,

The only things I don't like about the latest iMac are a) it has a 24" 4K screen and b) the maximum external storage is only 2TB. Really? The iMac Pro and the 2020 iMac have 27" 5K screens with up to 8TB internal storage. I would have bought an Apple Silicon 27" iMac if it existed. Apple is saying that, if they go there, it might not be till 2025 so I bought an M2 Studio Ultra. That the iMac screen is attached to the CPU argument is lost on me and I'll leave it at that.

See the last few posts in this thread about external storage. You can get 8TB at 2800 GB/s for about a grand.
viewtopic.php?t=73558&start=15

Monitors: If your current monitors are at all warm to the touch or if their only connections are DisplayPort or RGB, replace them. The savings on your electric bill will pay for the new ones and much sooner than you think.

I bought the 27" 5K Apple Studio Monitor with the Nanoglass option (added it to my wife's 2020 iMac; my old eyes love that Nanoglass!). https://www.apple.com/studio-display/
LG makes them. Do not spend the extra money on the Tilt & Height Stand. Get the VESA version. Not only are decent VESA stands readily available from $30–up (takes 5 minutes or so to set up) but the Studio Display supports portrait mode automatically if you rotate it 90° and you can't do that with the Apple stands. Side by side with my 27" LG 4K monitors, the 5k Studio does look a little better but is it $1,400 better?

The 4K LG monitors https://www.lg.com/us/4k-monitors have VESA mounts built-in and it takes a few seconds to remove the stands if you want. Although most of the supplied stands allow 90° rotation, a VESA stand that clamps to the back of your desk gives back the space occupied by the stand. I bought one of these for my Studio and liked it so much that I bought two more for my LGs the next day.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BYZ22NZT

Most LG monitors do not have a built-in camera and microphone for Zoom calls etc. Nice web cams have mics, of course, and don't cost that much but you don't want to be surprised so check the specs. Two of the LGs do, however, including the $3,000 OLED Pro and this 5K "with macOS compatibility" that's about $$600-$900 less than the Studio Monitor on Amazon (LG makes the Studio and iMac monitors).
https://www.amazon.com/LG-27MD5KL-B-Ult ... ref=sr_1_4

Do not connect monitors via DisplayPort! Trust me on this. Even though officially supported by Apple and recommended by armchair gaming experts, I've documented that trip to Hell and back in another thread. The Studio Monitor and that LG 5K require a TB3/4 or USB4 cable (my Studio Monitor sports a $24 USB4 cable but it comes with a $60 TB4 cable) while all others should use 4K@60Hz (recommended minum) or 8K@60Hz/4K@120Hz HDMI ($10) or HDMI to USB-C ($16 or so) depending on your monitors.

Which Mac to recommend? Hell if I know.

Any M2 will blow you away. The 24GB M2 Mini is good but limited to 2TB internal storage. The 32GB Mini M2 Pro has more CPU & GPU cores and faster internal storage— nice if doing AV and Video and supports more monitors if that's important.

The M2 Studio Max and Studio Ultra can be configured up to 192GB Unified RAM and 8TB onboard storage. The difference is that the Ultra is two Max chips fused to act as one.

The M2 Mac Pro is the M2 Ultra with extra PCIe slots. The most expensive one is $12,299 without accessories or AppleCare while the most expensive 2019 Mac Pro was over $53,000 (only $35,299 in the Refurb Store today).

Unified or Integrated RAM cannot be upgraded later as it is part of the Apple Silicon. The rule of thumb is that it's 4x more efficient than discrete RAM but, like any such guestimate, YMMV.

There's a lot of noise about the speed of internal storage. Those Minis and Studios using a single NAND (blade SSD) are slower than those using pairs configured RAID 0 (nearly twice as fast). We can be assured that those with less storage are using singles and that those with 8TB onboard are using twins but otherwise, Apple doesn't publish which are using what and no one has done a teardown of every configuration to tell us. Also, the Studios with their PCI 4 x6 bus and NAND are a lot faster than the 3 x4 bus on the M2 Mini. I'm of the opinion that that internal R/W speed doesn't matter that much for DP and other audio apps unless using VEP where it might. If doing AV and rendering large video files, it means a great deal and an 8TB Studio Ultra will shave hours or even days off that of a Mini with 512GB onboard—and that's still faster than the fastest external.

The new M3 chips are offered in the latest MacBook Pros only. They'll get to the other lines later but I wouldn't wait. Yes, they're faster and yada, yada, yada but the other advantages, weight and increased battery life don't apply to desktop Macs. Like the Mini and the Studio, the number of additional monitors depends on the exact MBP you buy.

Don't overlook the EDU and Refurb Stores. The CA Supreme Court put a squash on Apple's practice of recording student IDs if not purchased on campus so Apple can't really police the Apple Store for Education. AppleCare is a little cheaper through it even if you buy a Refurb.

The Certified Refurbished store sometimes has prices that are less than EDU. Sometimes, however, discontinued Macs will actually cost more. Look at the Intel Mac Pro 7.1, often many thousands of dollars more than the most expensive M2 Mac Pro.
https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac

The Touch ID keyboard: a few services including ApplePay from your Mac require the TouchID keyboard with TouchID engaged. I was on the fence about buying one, having just gotten a new Magic Keyboard Extended for free (see below). Without TouchID set up, it behaves the same as the Magic Keyboard. So, when I sold my iMac Pro last week, I included the new keyboard. Since I didn't get mine with my new Studio, I saved $20 and bought it on Amazon.

The Magic Mouse, Magic Trackpad 2 and Magic Keyboard (with or without TouchID) is purchased separately. However, any of these you buy with the Mac is covered under AppleCare+ but only if included on your original invoice. This got me a new keyboard free last month when a few keys were worn out. I was getting my iMP ready for sale when it suffered a freak accident 5 days before AppleCare expired. To replace the screen cost a $99 deductible and when I showed them the worn keys, I got a new one for free. Since 2021, AppleCare+ is offered for a one or three year period and you have 45 days to purchase it. After the initial period expires, you have 30 days to renew for another year. I renewed it on my iMP while it was in for repair and let the new buyer know—pretty sure that helped me get my full asking price. It should transfer automatically when he registers onto his Apple Account and he can renew it next October if he wants.

The Studio Monitor now has its own AppleCare+ plan and is no longer covered by the Mac's even when purchased on the same invoice as I did. The coverage and terms are otherwise the same.

Now go hunt down those best deals!

[donreynolds]

Thank you very much!! That is great info to help me make a choice. Nice to know about the warranty for mouse and board if on invoice. I need new ones. I have two Dell monitors but will be looking soon for new monitor.
I will be buying something this weekend.

Thanks again Mike

[mikehalloran]

…
My budget is 3-4k ish.
I have a lot of older material stored on internal drives in my Mac Pro. I am hoping to transfer the files to external drives so I don’t lose them.

I wasn’t sure if the minis were sufficient. That’s why I was looking at the Mac Studio also

I did want the M2 model though. I read the M2 ultra was very good.

$3-4k ish

From the EDU Store for college
https://www.apple.com/us-edu/shop/bag

Mini M2 Pro 32GB, 2TB onboard storage
TouchID Extended Keyboard
Magic Trackpad
AppleCare+ 3-years
--------------------- $2,745.99

Substitute Refurb M1 Mac Studio Max 32GB 512GB storage — $2, 125.45 (better GPU, faster internal storage)
https://www.apple.com/us-edu/shop/produ ... 91core-gpu

You may need or want:

LG 4K 27" Monitor — $270 and up
https://www.amazon.com/LG-27UN850-W-Dis ... ref=sr_1_3

Great webcam with noise-cancelling mic — $128 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N5 ... asin_title

LG 5K 27" Monitor — $987 (has integrated webcam/mic)
https://www.amazon.com/LG-27MD5KL-B-Ult ... r_1_3?th=1

USB4 external storage 2800 GB/s m.2 empty enclosure — $99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BBZT42HC?th=1

Aura Pro m.2 blade, 500GB to 8TB – $69–$899. https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/P4U8T1PT08/

Many brands and sizes on Amazon — must be m.2 form factor.
PCI/NVMe 3 x4 rated at or around 3100 GB/s will deliver maximum 2800 speed. Those rated 2000 GB/s work but are slower. NVMe 4 x4 and 4 x6 are backward compatible but TB3/4/USB4 cannot deliver those faster speeds from an external enclosure.

[donreynolds]

Thanks for the advice my friends
This is what I got

APPLE MAC STUDIO M2 MAX 1TB SSD 64GB RAM 12-CORE 30-CORE GPU

$2,529.89

There was not enough difference between the M1 Ultra and M2 Max to justify the cost difference.

I think the M2 Ultra was nice but thought the Max would be enough for me.

[HCMarkus]

You are gonna' love it.

[James Steele]

Thanks for the advice my friends
This is what I got

APPLE MAC STUDIO M2 MAX 1TB SSD 64GB RAM 12-CORE 30-CORE GPU

$2,529.89

Aren't I green with envy! I bought an M1 Max Mac Studio in July of 22 I believe with 64GB RAM and 2TB SSD and it cost me about $200 more, with tax out the door AND with the Friends & Family 15% discount from a friend who worked at Apple at the time! Yikes.

It's becoming clear to me that I'm going to have to trade up as I lust for more speed since performance will go up and prices will stay around the same. But before I move this machine over to office and graphics duty, I'll hang back for the next breakthrough which I hear will be M3+ and 3nm process?

[cuttime]

Well, that didn't take long!

[HCMarkus]

Thanks for the advice my friends
This is what I got

APPLE MAC STUDIO M2 MAX 1TB SSD 64GB RAM 12-CORE 30-CORE GPU

$2,529.89

Aren't I green with envy! I bought an M1 Max Mac Studio in July of 22 I believe with 64GB RAM and 2TB SSD and it cost me about $200 more, with tax out the door AND with the Friends & Family 15% discount from a friend who worked at Apple at the time! Yikes.

It's becoming clear to me that I'm going to have to trade up as I lust for more speed since performance will go up and prices will stay around the same. But before I move this machine over to office and graphics duty, I'll hang back for the next breakthrough which I hear will be M3+ and 3nm process?

I'm stuck with my "ancient" M1 Ultra.

Still very happy, and so glad I've had this machine to work with for the past year and a half. The things I've managed to accomplish with it, and the hair that is still attached to my head are both testaments to it's sweetness.

[James Steele]

Yeah... and I'm kinda joking... a little. I haven't hit the wall on this machine, but it really seems that Apple is starting to hit their stride with their own processors now and I have a gut feeling that the performance improvements are going to accelerate dramatically in the next iterations of Apple Silicon. And again... that's fine. In a couple years my M1 Max is going to make an absolutely KILLER machine for my office. My MacPro really needs to be retired, but I still have to run High Sierra as I have a very large Bento database that I rely on heavily, and Bento is a dead product that can't run on anything later than High Sierra... it actually runs better on Sierra, but that ship sailed and I don't feel like downgrading.

[James Steele]

I'm stuck with my "ancient" M1 Ultra.

Another thing... your M1 Ultra is significantly more powerful than my M1 Max. I was constrained by budget at the time... and still am to some extent. But as these Mx chips get more powerful it's going to be tempting to pop for another $2500 and change at some point. Even if I don't need it. I want it. Speed is addicting!! Hahaha! There's something exhilarating about sitting in front of a blazing fast computer and pressing keys and things are just snapping "bam... bam... bam!"

[mikehalloran]

Thanks for the advice my friends
This is what I got

APPLE MAC STUDIO M2 MAX 1TB SSD 64GB RAM 12-CORE 30-CORE GPU

$2,529.89

There was not enough difference between the M1 Ultra and M2 Max to justify the cost difference.

I think the M2 Ultra was nice but thought the Max would be enough for me.

Oh yea, you're gonna be just fine.