Mac Studio External Storage Options

[tbwnm]

Just took delivery of a Mac Studio M1 Max 32/1TB SSD and trying to figure out the best price performance ratio for active projects along with sample library and video/photo storage. These days I'm mostly using Kontakt sound libraries and need about 10TB of storage for my entire sound library. Also doing more video editing with FCP, so need to start with about 6TB for video/photos and active FCP projects. Looking at (2) SAMSUNG 870 QVO SATA III SSD 8TB currently going for $340 each https://a.co/d/dDPt5yi along with (2) Cable Matters SSD enclosures for $25 eachhttps://a.co/d/5052vby. This gets me 16TB of SSD storage for $730 and change. To save money, I was originally looking at a hybrid solution with a renewed Western Digital Ultrastar DC HC530 14TB SATA 6Gb/s 7200RPM 3.5-inch for sound library storage going for $144.99 and a SAMSUNG 870 QVO SATA III SSD 4TB 2.5" SSD for active audio and video projects currently going for $204 https://a.co/d/grlis67 along with the OWC Drive Dock for $89 https://a.co/d/gjCgWJ6, so the hybrid option for 18TB would work out to be $437. Coming from a Mid 2010 Mac Pro, which I have upgraded to the max through the years (really a great computer that has served me so well), I have already gotten spoiled (as others have mentioned) by the silence of the new Mac's and while I don't need the fastest storage options at this time, the sounds of mechanical hard drives constantly clicking during reading and writing is no longer as appealing as it once was . I appreciate there are faster and more efficient storage options out there, but assuming prices on SSD's and related peripherals are going to continue to drop, I can't justify the additional cost at this time. I'm really missing the fact that you can't upgrade anything internally on these new Mac's (I also lament the death of the internal PCI architecture which in many cases performed better than USB/Thunderbolt for less $$). Would appreciate any recommendations. Thank you!

[mikehalloran]

I don’t think I have any answers that I didn’t post in your other thread on this same subject.

(I also lament the death of the internal PCI architecture which in many cases performed better than USB/Thunderbolt for $$$$)

It’s not dead at all. Very much alive if you want to build a Windows machine with NVMe 4 x6 NAND inside. That’s what’s inside the Studio but Apple uses proprietary NAND that’’s pretty expensive. I expect that Apple will offer upgrades for the new Mac Pro pretty soon—if they do, those will be able to upgrade the Studio, too, same as with the 2019 Mac Pro and the iMac Pro. That 8TB upgrade kit costs $2,700 plus labor.

As for inexpensive external storage faster than the 2800 speed limit imposed by TB3/4 & USB 4, everybody (Mac/Windows/Linux etc.) is going to have to wait for Thunderbolt 5 & USB 4.2. 2024? 2025?

[tbwnm]

Thanks Mike for all your responses which are most helpful! Yes, I appreciate you addressed the storage questions in the "828es Cable" Chain https://www.motunation.com/forum/viewto ... 21#p606121 but thought it might be helpful to create a new topic with the appropriate subject. I checked the forum index and although there are a lot of posts that mention storage, I couldn't find a specific topic dedicated to this. Perhaps I should have named the topic "Budget External Storage Options for Apple Silicon Macs ("budget" sounds better than "cheap" lol). I could use the current version of the OWC Doc with the SSD drives instead of the Cable Matters enclosures but thinking I'll end up using that Doc for Time Machine Backups and swapping in other drives as needed.

I switched from using DP exclusively to Logic about 5 years (although I still use DP) and it's hard to believe I have been part of this group for more than 20 years now since my early days running DP on a Mac IIcx with Sample Cell (purchased from Mark Mann at an Apple Computer store in Westwood before Apple Stores existed). Where did the years go? Thanks again for all your help and to James for keeping this forum going!

[mikehalloran]

I could use the current version of the OWC Doc with the SSD drives instead of the Cable Matters enclosures but thinking I'll end up using that Doc for Time Machine Backups and swapping in other drives as needed.

False economy. That only works if you switch Time Machine to manual backups and swap drives every time you want to back up. I recommend splitting TM away from your normal storage for many reasons besides the amount of time you are wasting. The biggest one being, what happens if something gets screwed up and you want to roll something back? With automatic backups, the worst case is that you only lose an hour.
https://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64689

TM is best over Ethernet, Thunderbolt or WiFi. None of these have the wake from sleep issue that can haunt storage over USB 2/3. You can get a 22TB mechanical HDD and stick it in a box connected via ethernet. You can also use a dock and connect it to most WiFi routers. In my case, mine are in NAS boxes on the network via Ethernet along with my router and can be accessed by any of the 6 Macs that my wife and I use—3 via Ethernet and 3 via Wifi. It's like old Ron Popeil: "Set it and forget it."

You can find used WD MyCloud boxes on eBay. You want the ones with Ethernet ports. These are refurb'd by WD. They don't sell them empty anymore. The My Cloud Home is not a NAS box but it does support Time Machine and WD does have phone support. Normally, you set it up through your browser. Connect it via ethernet to your router.
https://www.ebay.com/p/23030652624?iid=294894576066

As for the drives inside, plenty of choices among WD, Seagate and Toshiba. I like energy saving HDDs with 5 year warranties. With your needs, I don't see going less than 20TB.

There is nothing wrong with RAID 0 if supported by the firmware of a NAS box. This lets you double the capacity and increases speed (not by double). Time Machine supports it. Lots of reports of people having issues but nearly all are with software implementations—no thank you.

[tbwnm]

For Time Machine Back-ups I'm currently using an Orico Doc https://a.co/d/1yde7Nt with a renewed 14TB Ultrastar https://a.co/d/c8jmtzWt for the past 6 months connected via USB to my Mid 2010 Mac Pro and have had no issues with it (I have fallen asleep but this Doc and Drive never has). I wouldn't try swapping out the drive used for Time Machine on this Doc (or the OWC Dock If I get one) and I also haven't tired adding another drive into the available slot which could screw things up (the OWC Doc does have separate power for each drive but from what I have read it can be temperamental). Your network Time Machine Set up is the way to go. I actually have one of the original 3TB My Cloud https://a.co/d/48PFuAr that I still use as an audio/video server and it continues to work like a champ. I actually used this for Time Machine back ups many moons ago when 3TB actually meant something. I tried connecting additional drives to the USB port to expand storage but for some reason although it sees the drives when I click on the USB icon, on every drive I have tried it shows "0 KB Free of 0 KB". I'll need to research this further as Its probably a drive formatting issue. Thanks again for all your help!

[tbwnm]

shows "0 KB Free of 0 KB". I'll need to research this further as Its probably a drive formatting issue

Looks like the My Cloud does not recognize directories from a connected USB drive if formatted ExFat or APFS but it did recognize a Seagate Backup+ Hub BK 4TB partition formatted in Mac OS Extended (Journaled). Hopefully I can continue to use my existing My Cloud as a media server and for network Time Machine Back ups once I connect a large enough external USB HD to accommodate my back up (20TB+)?

[tbwnm]

(2) SAMSUNG 870 QVO SATA III SSD 8TB currently going for $340 each https://a.co/d/dDPt5yi along with (2) Cable Matters SSD enclosures for $25 eachhttps://a.co/d/5052vby. This gets me 16TB of SSD storage for $730 and

I ended up purchasing (2) 8TB 870 QVO SATA SSD drives. Is there any benefit to going with the NVMe.U.2 version of the OWC Drive Dock? https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TCDRVDCKSN/ The cost is 50% more and I don't see upgrading to SSD storage that can take advantage of NVMe for the foreseeable future.

[tbwnm]

I appreciate that the Samsung QVO’s are pretty much the cheapest slowest SSD available in the 8TB size from what I could find (the write speeds also tanks once the SLC cache fills) but I can't justify more $$ at the moment. If there is anything out there close to this price that offers better performance and reliability I would love to know!

[HCMarkus]

I appreciate that the Samsung QVO’s are pretty much the cheapest slowest SSD available in the 8TB size from what I could find (the write speeds also tanks once the SLC cache fills) but I can't justify more $$ at the moment. If there is anything out there close to this price that offers better performance and reliability I would love to know!

QVOs best use case is as VI Sample Drives, where the usage is Write Once, Read Many. I wouldn't trust them with tasks that involve a lot of disk writes and re-writes.

[mikehalloran]

I appreciate that the Samsung QVO’s are pretty much the cheapest slowest SSD available in the 8TB size from what I could find (the write speeds also tanks once the SLC cache fills) but I can't justify more $$ at the moment. If there is anything out there close to this price that offers better performance and reliability I would love to know!

There’s a lot of armchair expert nonsense out there. The SLC cache will never be your problem.

QVOs best use case is as VI Sample Drives, where the usage is Write Once, Read Many. I wouldn't trust them with tasks that involve a lot of disk writes and re-writes.

That — which is how I use my 870 QVOs, too.

There’s not much out there for 8TB 3D SATA III SSDs. This company has both 8TB and 16TB but they’re expensive.
https://www.amazon.com/TEAMGROUP-Inter ... r_1_2_sspa

No reason to have a matched pair. Do you really need an 8TB SSD for projects?

There are file types that can be offloaded to externals with no problem to make room on the system drive. I have a 500GB AppleMusic library — since Mojave, these can be offloaded to make room while the OS treats it as internal.

SATA III SSDs are slow and there’s no getting around that. When Apple upgraded the iMac Pro from 2TB to 4TB, I sold my 14 core/2TB and bought an 18 core 4/TB. NAND upgrades weren’t available yet. I did it because writing my projects to a SATA III SSD was unacceptably slow and BTD could take an hour for a 2-hour live recording. My AV project rendering could take a day.

I’d look at this. It’s 3x the speed of SATA III. Get the size you need—that can be upgraded later. Archive completed projects to the 870s (as I do).
/https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/envoy- ... nderbolt-3

Being 2Lane, it runs half as fast as a 4Lane enclosure which is why it can be loaded to 8TB. Heat is the issue. This is nearly twice as fast but OWC has determined that it can’t handle an 8TB blade running 4Lanes.
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-envoy-pro-fx

[tbwnm]

Thanks Mike, great info as always . I was also considering the Team Group and was considering the QX4TB 3D NAND and purchasing (4) of those which would be cheaper than the (2) 8TB OVO's https://a.co/d/dEdROYs, but by the time I add additional enclosures, the cost would be a bit more. Do you think these would perform better than the OVO's? Like you, I'm going to use the SSD's for VI samples as well as my Photos Library (which is 4TB) so with my 10TB sound library I'll have used up 14 of the 16TB of storage on the OVO's. I may have to hook up one of my trusty old USB 3 HDD drives for archiving. As you suggested, I'll purchase a faster SSD for current FCP/video and audio projects (such as the 4TB Envoy Express you suggested). Thanks again for all your help!

[tbwnm]

Can the OWC Drive Doc https://www.owc.com/solutions/drive-dock when used with (2) QVO 8TB SSD's for VI sound library storage be configured as RAID in Mac OS Sonoma? OWC also has a "SoftRAID solution https://www.owc.com/blog/how-softraid-i ... lumes-safebut have no experience with this.

[tbwnm]

Received a reply back from OWC regarding RAID. Probably no advantage to using RAID for (2) QVO 8TB connected to a Mac Studio vs using individual enclosure or the drive doc. Also, according to the link "2 drive capacity up to 8TB” only.

Thank you for your email and the information provided. When it comes to the OWC Drive Dock, the functionality exists, however with the fact that the device itself, and the drive bays all have separate power buttons. Creating a RAID between the 2 disks is not recommended because of the mass amount of variables.
I would recommend the OWC Mercury Elite Pro
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/externa ... -dual/mini

If you have any further questions or concerns please feel free to reply to this email, and I will be happy to assist you. Thank you have a fantastic day.

Sincerely,

Jeff H.
Customer Experience

[mikehalloran]

Users have been having problems with OWC's Soft RAID and Apple Silicon. The maximum speed is just under 900 Mbps as opposed to 560 for one SATA III SSD. Just don't. Multi-drive NAS and server boxes handle RAID in the box firmware where it belongs.

Until 3D NAND came along a few years ago, SSDs had a bad reputation for reliability. 3D is designed for multiple RW. Yes, you can compare speeds on Tom's but real world use doesn't match those tests so I regard them as insignificant..

QVO is Write Few/Read many — this has been posted a few times now — but it is why QVO is fine for VIs and archiving but should not be used for active projects on a regular basis. Now and then is ok.

Neither type is faster in the real world. QVO normally has a 3 year warranty while the quality 3D drives should have a 5 year warranty.

The fastest SATA III SSD over USB 3 is 1/3 the speed of that 2Lane TB3 enclosure from OWC and 1/6 that of the 4Lane enclosure — but you are limited to a 4TB m2 blade in the 4Lane because of the heat. Running half as fast, the 8TB runs cooler in the 2Lane.

[HCMarkus]

Do not use RAID for VI Sample storage. The speed increase you see with RAID is for larger writes and reads; great for video transfer, but the many tiny reads VIs pull are actually slowed by RAID.

My research suggests RAID is fine for backup redundancy, but is otherwise unadvised in audio applications.