Mac Studio External Storage Options

[mikehalloran]

Do not use RAID for VI Sample storage. The speed increase you see with RAID is for larger writes and reads; great for video transfer, but the many tiny reads VIs pull are actually slowed by RAID.

My research suggests RAID is fine for backup redundancy, but is otherwise unadvised in audio applications.

I read some of those threads ...

Every one of us with a Mac from 2017 on that has two NAND modules inside is working from a RAID 0 array.

[HCMarkus]

Do not use RAID for VI Sample storage. The speed increase you see with RAID is for larger writes and reads; great for video transfer, but the many tiny reads VIs pull are actually slowed by RAID.

My research suggests RAID is fine for backup redundancy, but is otherwise unadvised in audio applications.

I read some of those threads ...

Every one of us with a Mac from 2017 on that has two NAND modules inside is working from a RAID 0 array.

Well there ain't a lot we are going to do about THAT, now is there?

But when talking about external storage, it is important to consider the impact of RAID.

[tbwnm]

Thanks for the responses! I will just say NO to raid on SSD for now! In addition to the (2) 8TB QVO's for VI Sound Library storage, I purchased the OWC Envoy Pro FX 4TB as recommended by Mike for current FCP/video and audio projects. Running AJS System tests (16GB File Size; Resolution 4K RED HD Codec ProRes HQ) below are some initial speed test comparisons:

OWC Envoy Pro FX 4 TB https://a.co/d/5RrEalJ
Read speed of 1674 MB/Second
Write Speed of 2653MN/Second

OWC Drive Doc https://a.co/d/5RrEalJ with (2) QVO 8TB SSD's https://a.co/d/hzsBK01
Read speed 482 MB/Second
Write Speed 513 MB/Second

Orico External Hard Drive Doc and Duplicator https://a.co/d/99KC8ux with the same (2) QVO 8TB SSD's https://a.co/d/hzsBK01
Read speed 406 MB/Second
Write speed 308 MB/Second

I also ran the same test while simultaneously writing a 130Gb Library.photoslibrary file (copying from the Mac Studio internal SSD) and after 115GB of the file had been written, I started running the speed test again. As expected, the speeds on QVO in the OWC Dock went way down and continued to drop and the results were 254 MB/ Second read and 128 MB/ second write. It took 13 Minutes to write the 130GB file to the QVO in the OWC Dock. I did the same stress test on the OWC Envoy Pro FX 4 TB and it dropped to 442 MB/SEC WRITE and 2211 MB/SEC READ. It took 4 minutes to write the 130GB file to the Envoy. I thought the Envoy would hold up better on the write speed but maybe this is to be expected?

I have detailed AJS System Test reports if anyone wishes to see them. Anyone looking to purchase the QVO's, keep in mind that the prices jump around throughout the day on Amazon. I paid $330 each on October 25th and they are $345 each today (the next day).

[mikehalloran]

Last night, OWC sent a flier and their 8TB blade was discontinued $170 — so I pounced and snagged the last one. Since having 8TB was more important to me than max speed, I bought the 2-Lane Express instead of the 4-Lane Pro to put it in. I should be fine at 1500 Mbps since I have 8TB onboard at 8000 or so. 3 year warranty but I’m putting it in one of their enclosures…

Last year, I helped (big name engineer) try to get an 8TB Sabrant blade working in his Mac Pro 6.1. It was just too hot no matter what heatsinks were tried and the blade would fry after an hour. 4TB worked but the manufacturer told him they weren’t going to replace them anymore—here’s a refund and stop trying. Thing is that the MP trash can only has a 2 Lane bus so the blade wasn’t getting as hot as it would in a 4 Lane chassis.

Anyway, lesson learned—if OWC wasn’t signing off on their 8TB bade in the Pro enclosure, I wasn’t going to chance it. Damn, the price difference was only $30. This should do me for a few years. I’ve also learned a lot about price/performance in the real world when it comes to Time Machine but I’ll save that for another thread.

[tbwnm]

That's a GREAT deal for a 8TB Blade. I would totally have jumped on that if I had known about it. Which one was it? Maybe it will pop up on sale through other retailers. I did run into an issue setting up the Envoy Pro FX and sent the email below to OWC support. Has anyone else encountered this? Thinking it's a compatibility issue with Sonoma 14.1? I'm not sure I'm going to keep the Envoy Pro FX as its overkill for me and pretty expensive. I would rather have more storage than faster speed and durability (in terms of the enclosure). 1500mbps would be just fine for my needs.

I just received this drive and connected it to my Mac Studio running OS Sonoma 14.1. When I clicked on the OWC SETUP - Mac pop up I received the following error message "Unable to run OWC Drive Guide". In order to mount the drive, I had to use Disk Utility to erase and format it APFS. Drive mounted findand says 3.84TB available out of 4TB. Is this correct? Ref. screenshots attached:

[mikehalloran]

If you didn't format that drive APFS, do so unless a computer not running High Sierra or later needs to access the drive.

I don't use drive utilities other than for diagnosing issues. None of them actually do anything. All are APIs for Apple's Disk Utility.app or Terminal nowadays — and those do everything I need.

Even TechTool Pro, once used in-house by Apple, is useless except as a diagnostic tool. It can't actually "repair" anything. Most of the so-called "problems" it finds aren't. I have a side hustle repairing and upgrading old Macs so providing a print-out showing that a RAM stick or HDD or fan is bad helps. I've not sent in an SSD or HDD for warranty in a long time (thank goodness) but a TTP report sent to Crucial or WD in advance guarantees an RMA with no questions asked and an immediate shipment of the replacement.

[tbwnm]

Yes, I formatted the Envoy APFS on Sonoma 14.1 on my Mac Studio. QVO's 8TB now discounted to under $300 with the $50 coupon applied at check out on Amazon https://a.co/d/0sm4JLg

[tbwnm]

Speed test results (I ran the Black Magic Test for 15 minutes).
OWC 4TB Envoy Pro https://a.co/d/clusl1G
Write 1376.7 MB/s - Read 1365.8 MB/s

WD Black SN850X 4TB https://a.co/d/1Rg6wcA with Acasis TUB405Pro M1 enclosure https://a.co/d/8YPiOQj
Write 2770.2 MB/s - Read 2830.9 MB/s

Samsung 990 Pro 4TB https://a.co/d/3XRM5xB with Acasis TUB405Pro M1 enclosure https://a.co/d/39TG8dP
Write 2803.9 MB/s - Read 2808.4 MB/s

I'll be returning the OWC Envoy Pro (although this is a good options if you need a really solid durable enclosure that you can take anywhere). The Samsung 990 and WD Black speeds are basically the same so not sure which one I'll keep yet (recommendations are appreciated).

OWC Envoy Pro FX 4TB 15 Minute Test.png (229.93 KiB) Viewed 21850 times

WD Black SN850X 4TB.png (229.99 KiB) Viewed 21850 times

Samsung 990 PRO 4TB.png (229.05 KiB) Viewed 21850 times

[tbwnm]

Ran another set of tests using AJA Disk Speed Utility for 15 minutes which gives a more detailed report of minimum and maximum read and write speeds to see how these SSD drives perform under stress. The WD Black gave solid read and write speed performance throughout the test whereas the OWC Envoy and Samsung 990 Pro were inconsistent and degraded over time. Have attached the last page of the report of the write speeds for each. I'll be keeping the WD Black and returning the other two.

AJS OWC Envoy Pro FX 4TB 15 Minute Test Last Page Write.PNG (301.35 KiB) Viewed 21842 times

AJS Samsung 990 PRO 4TB 15 Minute Test Last Page Write.PNG (274.12 KiB) Viewed 21842 times

AJS Black SN850X 4TB 15 Minute Test Last Page Write.PNG (154.51 KiB) Viewed 21842 times

[mikehalloran]

Speed test results (I ran the Black Magic Test for 15 minutes).

Thanks for running that. I was planning to write about the Acasis TUB405 today and your tests are a big help.

Yes, return the Envoy Pro FX. Your test should not have been that slow. The only explanations I can think of are a defective unit, defective cable (or one that didn't actually support TB3/USB4) since your test showed clearly that it was running over 2 Lanes instead of 4.

I, too, went with the Acasis TUB405 but not the Pro with the built-in fan. Please let us know if that fan adds any noticeable noise. If mine runs too warm, I'll kick it back to Amazon for an exchange—I've till Jan 31 to do so.

https://www.acasis.com/products/acasis- ... 9026804965

I wanted something that supported an 8TB blade – these tend to run HOT and not everything can handle that. Some enclosures tell you not to run the 970 EVO inside for the same reason. The Acasis TUB405/405Pro are supposed to be newly designed and bla, bla, bla so I'm taking the chance. Of the many USB 4 enclosures out there, I recommend avoiding all that give you a list of what drives not to install.

In addition to 8TB support, I also wanted a 4 Lane empty enclosure. The only empty TB3 enclosures I can find are the SABRENT Solid Aluminum Enclosure (EC-T3NS) and the OWC Envoy Express (that I bought and am planning to return) — both are only 2 Lanes, however. I'm not sure that 2800 brings that much more to a Sample drive but if using an external as a Project drive because you didn't buy enough internal storage, then yes, you want the full 4 Lane 2800 speed, IMO.

Lanes. I'll use round numbers since minor speed differences don't mean a thing. These are for one fast blade in a single blade TB3/USB 4 enclosure. These are the max speeds over the pipe (a TB3/4/USB 4 cable), not internally in a PCI bus. A USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 or slower cable will not give you these speeds nor will it support TRIM on a Mac.

1 Lane max 1000 GB/s — USB 3.2 Gen 2 (was USB 3.1)
2 Lanes max 1500 — TB2/3/4/USB 4 on a Mac; USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (was 3.2) on a PC. Apple doesn't support USB 3.2 Gen 2x2
4 Lanes max 2800 - TB3/4/USB 4

In Multi-blade enclosures, each blade uses only a single Lane if quad-blade or 2 Lanes if twin-blade in a 4 Lane box — doesn't matter how many are installed. Marketing departments often lie about performance and claim 4000 (1000x4) when, in reality the max speed is 1000 as each will show up as separate drives (JBOD) unless… One must use RAID 0 to achieve speeds approaching those of a single blade enclosure.

Do not use RAID for VI Sample storage. The speed increase you see with RAID is for larger writes and reads; great for video transfer, but the many tiny reads VIs pull are actually slowed by RAID.

My research suggests RAID is fine for backup redundancy, but is otherwise unadvised in audio applications.

I agree and partly disagree. Nothing wrong with RAID 0 for sample drives if the enclosure supports RAID 0 in its firmware (they exist but are very expensive and none are available from OWC) and is properly backed up, preferably by multiple Time Machine backups that back up the entire system hourly. Macs with two NAND modules are configure RAID 0 according to Apple and the speeds show this. It's not necessary for Sample drives, however. RAID 1 is the same data on mirrored drives and should only be used for backup/restore since data access is slower.

I agree 100% that no one should using SoftRaid type solutions to create a RAID array—everyone I've spoken to who's tried that with Apple Silicon has had problems, "But I don't want the 4 drives showing up as JBOD…" Sorry, that's the reliable solution — 1000 GB/s is pretty fast for a Sample drive and twice that of a SATA III SSD.

Back to the Acasis TUB405. These are USB 4, not TB3. So, while the components are not certified by Intel, it is a 4 Lane enclosure as the speed tests show. Also, it does not meet all of the TB specs and restrictions. What this means is that it's backward compatible to USB 3.2 Gen 1 (was USB 3.0) as advertised while TB3 is not. Just for kicks, I tried it with a USB Printer cable that supports USB 2.0/1.1 480Kbps) only and connected it to my 2012 MacBook Pro — and it works! I did not expect this and would certainly use a USB 3 (5000 GB/s) cable, the speed limit of that port, if I ever wanted to use that drive on that old MBP. Take a look:

Acasis TUB405 on 2012 MBP.jpg (1023.15 KiB) Viewed 21804 times

Another advantage that applies to both TB3 and USB 4 is that TRIM is automatically enabled. It must be unblocked on 2.5" SATA III SSDs (500–550 GB/s) and then only possible in eSATA or Thunderbolt enclosures/docks.

As for the actual blades, There are slow (Crucial P2, Intel P1 rated 2000) and fast (everything rated 3100) NVMe 3 x4 m.2 blades. In a 4 Lane, single blade external housing, the fast will achieve 2800 speeds over TB3/USB 4 but the slow will not. The newer 4 x4 and 4 x6 blades will run no faster in an external—as the speed test showed—but they are backward compatible. Those super-fast speeds are for compatible PC motherboards. I'm not recommending against them, however, as TB5/USB 4.2 is on the horizon and that is expected to support a much faster, 6 Lane pipe. Apple uses 4 x6 NAND in the Studios with about 4600 speed in the single blade and 8000 in the twin blade versions.

Before anyone asks, if TB4 enclosures exist, I've not seen any. TB4 allows up to 5 TB3 devices to be attached to a single port on a Mac (4 on a PC) while the TB3 spec only allows up to two. It brings nothing else to the table on a Mac except higher charging voltages. TB4 enclosures are possible but they would have to also function as hubs and cannot be bus powered. Although daisy-chain is supported, bus power is not beyond the first device in the chain. The higher charging Voltage is why TB4 cables exist, however.

[tbwnm]

I, too, went with the Acasis TUB405 but not the Pro with the built-in fan. Please let us know if that fan adds any noticeable noise. If mine runs too warm, I'll kick it back to Amazon for an exchange—I've till Jan 31 to do so.

There is a manual switch on the Acasis pro that turns the fan on and off. It’s fairly quiet but you hear it (about what I’m used to in a relatively quiet external drive). I ran the tests with the fan off and the case did get pretty warm (about the same as the Envoy) so the case was doing its job of dissipating the heat. I did try another 15 minute test with the fan on and the speeds were the same but as expected the fan did make the case significantly cooler. I don’t think I’ll need to run the fan on a 4TB SSD but the option is there. I'm going to be using this drive for current FCP/Video and DP/Logic audio projects so I wanted the write speeds to be solid (I have my VI library on the QVO's)

I was surprised that the minimum read and write speeds on the 990 were all over the place compared with the WD. The read speeds even more so (last page attached). Something was clearly up with the Envoy so returned that today.

AJS Samsung 990 PRO 4TB 15 Minute Test Last Page Read.PNG (305.75 KiB) Viewed 21764 times

AJS Black SN850X 4TB 15 Minute Test Last Page Read.PNG (275.31 KiB) Viewed 21764 times

AJS OWC Envoy Pro FX 4TB 15 Minute Test Last Page Read.PNG (265.5 KiB) Viewed 21764 times

[mikehalloran]

Thanks for posting about the fan switch on the Acasis. As I’ll be using mine for samples and short term archival, I’m not expecting to need the Pro but I’ve a couple months to decide. My empty Envoy Express went back yesterday.

Those twin 8TB 870 QVOs will be going into a NAS box configured RAID 0 for a 15.70TB Time Machine drive. I need to talk with WD Support about administering multiple NAS boxes on the same network before deciding whether to buy a third or go with Synology for my next one. More info on that when I’m done but I’ve been using multiple RAID 0 setups for TM a long time, now.

It’s time to retire my old 11-15 year old Apple Time Capsules — I might have the only pair in the country still working. Even with low power 5400rpm drives, one could bake biscuits on those heaters.

My 4TB QVOs will eventually go into my 2012 MBPs running Mojave and Catalina. They’re seldom used machines for beta testing, troubleshooting and the few apps that require those macOSs. Till then, I’m reorganizing my 600GB AppleMusic/iTunes library which might take months at the rate I’m going so they’re staying in my old TB2 x2 dock. That dock has an on/off switch as does each drive, perfect for holding a pair of spinners used for deep archival only.

[tbwnm]

Those twin 8TB 870 QVOs will be going into a NAS box configured RAID 0 for a 15.70TB Time Machine drive.

.

You welcome, glad I could help (you have helped me so much!). I'm also looking for a cost effective back up solution for my new Mac Studio set up. Was thinking about hooking up an external HDD to my old WD My Cloud (this was a set up you used to use I believe Mike?) and run the TM back up from my network. I could purchase a reconditioned 18TB 7200 HDD https://a.co/d/8CSR60B and USB 3.2 enclosure or dock https://a.co/d/1QTuhw8 for under $200 (although, I appreciate there are always risks when purchasing a reconditioned drive) or I could purchase one of these 18TB WD Elements drives currently on sale for $229 https://slickdeals.net/f/17106778-wd-el ... ipping-229 and connect that to the WD My Cloud. For the additional external drive to be recognized by WD My Cloud, I believe it needs to be formatted Mac OS Extended (Journaled)? Is this still a viable option? Would appreciate any tips on how to make this work. It's unlikely my 10TB VI sound library is going to change for some time so I might just make a manual copy to a 10TB HDD drive and store it and save the space for more incremental Time Machine back ups of my system, AV projects and other files.

[HCMarkus]

I'd recommend BackBlaze in the cloud. Unlimited cloud backup for a single computer. $9/mo

Caveat is you can't use NAS.

I also run Time Machine on local USB2 HDs. I've been running Seagates for years... 8TB for Time Machine, 14TB for long-term storage. I omit VI samples from TM but keep them on BackBlaze.

[mikehalloran]

I'd recommend BackBlaze in the cloud. Unlimited cloud backup for a single computer. $9/mo

Caveat is you can't use NAS.

I also run Time Machine on local USB2 HDs. I've been running Seagates for years... 8TB for Time Machine, 14TB for long-term storage. I omit VI samples from TM but keep them on BackBlaze.

I'm not that much different.

+1 on Backblaze.

As most of my Time Machine backups are on NAS boxes configured RAID 0, those are not included, of course. I do back up my Sample drives to Time Machine. The reason is that, if I accidentally delete something on one that I shouldn't, it's faster to restore. At the moment, I've consolidated my pair of 4TB QVO drives to the 8TB Aura Pro so only the 8TB is included in TM.

It will be months as I shuffle things around and get my external storage the way I like. It's been years since I've felt that I've had enough room. Having 8TB internal + 8TB on the Aura Pro gives me the space I need and I'm not in a huge hurry.

With my wife's Macs + mine, that's six and the Studio has about 11TB right now but that will go down to 9 or so in a few days. The rest of them will be less than 4 combined when I'm done. Once I archive some ancient history, I will be able to make even more room. I have files going back to January, 1986 on my Mac Plus—it's time.

I'm still running 5400 HDDs – WD Red+ 14TB are the largest I can find at that speed. They use less energy and are quieter, the real attraction for me. RAID 0 in a NAS box is as fast as I need them to run.

I do not back up all six Macs to all TM volumes but that is the goal. I had a long talk with WD Support today. Whether I get another WD box or try Synology will depend on some Support docs they emailed me today. I cannot see both WD boxes on my network for Admin though I can call all Volumes in TM. Since I need to make changes and re-configure, I need to be able to see and talk to the boxes through a browser.