MOTU Drivers and Ventura - RESOLVED

[electricnote]

I've been changing out Apple and MOTU hardware and the new system been less than dependable to say the least.

The old system:

• Mac Pro (2010)

• macOS Mojave

• MOTU MIDI Express 128

• MOTU 828mkii

The current system:

• Mac Studio M1

• macOS Ventura

• MOTU MIDI Express XT

• MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid

• MOTU 8pre

The old set up was very reliable and usable. The new one is all headaches. Lots of kernel panics, the Mac Studio freezing, locking up Logic Pro, the MIDI Express XT either disappearing or showing up as deactivated in Audio MIDI Setup even though it's powered up,...

I've been through all the hoops: uninstalling and reinstalling with current MOTU audio and MIDI drivers, making sure kernel permissions are correct when installing drivers, changing out USB 2.0 cables, moving USB cables to different ports, changing the order that interfaces are powered up, and anything else I could think of.

One thing I've also noticed is that restarting the Mac does not usually fix anything. It has to be powered down and then powered back up.

Has anyone had a similar setup that actually works? Or is the quality of MOTU drivers so bad now that it renders their products into useless junk?

[HCMarkus]

I’m running an M1 Mac Studio under Ventura with a Motu 828ES. The system has been very solid from the get-go for me. I connect my 828ES to the Mac Studio via thunderbolt.

When I added a couple of additional external USB, hard drives, I did run into USB power issues that were remedied by using a powered hub.

Here’s hoping you’re soon able to get your system running well.

[electricnote]

I would've bought a 828ES when my old 828mkii started to go out. But they were impossible to get because of parts shortages so I had to go with the 828mk3 Hybrid. I kind of get the feeling that the ES boxes have better drivers for newer Macs.

[mothra]

Im on an M2 Pro Mini with an 828x, but that uses the same driver as the mk3 and the mk2. I haven't had any troubles until very recently, Im going to guess after the recent 13.6 update (can't remember the first time it happened). Now when I turn it on, it's hit or miss if it really connects. The thing boots and syncs to my Ferrofish's clock, MOTU Audio Setup opens on the Mac and I can mess with the settings. But open up Cubase, or even try to play Apple Music, nope. Cubase loads fine, and will even prompt me to switch to the 828x, if I was using something else last time it was open. But, when loading a project, it tells me there's an error and it can't open the interface. Stuff like Apple Music, just beachballs if I hit play. It looks like it's playing but no audio. Try to hit stop, skip, select any other track/artist/album etc, have to force quit the app (or shut off the MOTU).

I just have to pull the USB cable out of the Mac and plug it back in, but the last how ever many years I've owned it, it never did that until a couple/few weeks ago. Once it's up and running though, not a single hiccup with it. Cubase, Ableton Live 11, Logic Pro, Renoise, etc..

[electricnote]

It's gotten to the point that I can't use Logic Pro and my synth modules anymore because the MOTU software and hardware is so unstable. Tonight I had to reboot eight times. The longest I went without freezing up was about 20 minutes. It's been like this for months with nothing even approaching a solution. I can no longer play or write music.

None of the hardware, including the Mac Studio, are more than 7 months old. The MOTU 828mk3, 8pre, and MIDI Express XT USB are just useless boxes with lights. That's a lot of cash down the drain for worthless junk.

[mikehalloran]

Lots of kernel panics,

means that you have something—or many things—wrong that have to be found and purged.

I've been through that hell any times over te last five years. Total number times that it's been a MOTU driver: Not once, I have quite a laundry list of causes, the worst being old CodeMwter run times used by Antares and others.

If you post some of those .kxts, I can probably help. It will take work on your part.

[HCMarkus]

When I moved to Apple Silicon from Intel, I started from scratch. I used Migration Assistant only for Network Settings, and I sneaker-netted my VI Samples to a new External Thunderbolt NVMe SSD. The whole shebang took about two days. Things have been very solid since then, except when I added a third External HD for long term backup; I started getting unpredictable drive disconnects or connection failures on startup with USB and TB drives. Adding a new powered USB Hub for the External (powered) HDs and using care in sequencing power up of peripherals took care of that issue.

Power up sequence is: Audio Interface, Displays and USB peripherals first, followed by USB HDs and powered hub, then the Mac Studio. Reliable to date running Ventura 13.5.1.

If you've got lots of Intel cruft in your poorly performing machine, I'd look at starting over with a clean install of everything. And look out for power issues with USB!

[mikehalloran]

When I moved to Apple Silicon from Intel, I started from scratch. I used Migration Assistant only for Network Settings,…


If you've got lots of Intel cruft in your poorly performing machine, I'd look at starting over with a clean install of everything. And look out for power issues with USB!

That.

Installing your apps as new creates new Application Support files in Library and Users/(account name)/Library. DP is one of many apps that puts files in both directories. Most importantly, this does not bring over (in my case) 38 years of crap going back to my Mac Plus.

I'm getting a Studio today will be moving over my Network Settings and Documents only via Migration Assistant—gotta do it from Time Machine unless I want to wait a week for my iMac Pro to come back from Apple for a screen replacement. The rest will be a clean install. Since my VIs are already on an external except for SampleTank, I get to leave that alone for now.

When I have had these issues, it's old code that has lain dormant for years. New apps call it up and really screw everything. As I mentioned earlier, I have a list so let's see those .kxt files that are gumming up the works. I know how to get rid of anything, no matter where it's buried.

[Michael Canavan]

Like others have mentioned, when going to a new machine or OS, old drivers, versions of plugins, and applications can and do mess with stability.

I decided to use Migration Assistant and did not do a clean instal for the first time pretty much ever, just this last time. It definitely is a lot more likely to drag garbage with it, and I went from a clean installed M1 Air to the Mac Studio. I had massive issues with crashes at first but in my case it was mostly older versions of plugins, when you have a couple hundred plugins from dozens of companies it takes some time to update them all, but it personally solved my issues.
Same goes for audio drivers, MIDI drivers, mouse drivers, and any open application while you use your DAW.

Like Mike H mentioned after all that if your'e still having issues, trashing preferences can help. A while ago some errant AU3 was messing with Logic and it took forever to solve, That was the only way Logic would work at all was to trash preferences. I usually toss them on the desktop in case it doesn't solve the problem, since you're going to have to go through all your settings to get to where you were before getting rid of them, if you do not have to get rid of them, all the better.

[electricnote]

Unfortunately, it isn't old drivers or remnants of apps.

I've erased and reinstalled macOS on the Mac Studio several times chasing a solution, to no avail. Last night I went to the extreme of putting it in DFU mode, connecting another Mac, and then running a full restore. This is usually done only if an Apple Silicon Mac has had fixes applied and nothing else works. The full restore completely erases the internal drive, rewrites the firmware, restores the recovery volume, and restores the default OS volume.

I then installed the latest drivers for the 828mk3 Hybrid and the MIDI Express XT USB. Installed the latest Logic Pro. The result? Freezes, not responding messages, and beachballs. I even uninstalled Logic and its support components and then installed Performer Lite. Performer Lite couldn't even get to it's main window.

I then uninstalled the MOTU audio and MIDI drivers. Rebooted. Logic Pro and Performer Lite both ran without a hitch. Ugh.

[mikehalloran]

Unfortunately, it isn't old drivers or remnants of apps.

I've erased and reinstalled macOS on the Mac Studio several times chasing a solution, to no avail. Last night I went to the extreme of putting it in DFU mode, connecting another Mac, and then running a full restore. This is usually done only if an Apple Silicon Mac has had fixes applied and nothing else works. The full restore completely erases the internal drive, rewrites the firmware, restores the recovery volume, and restores the default OS volume.

I then installed the latest drivers for the 828mk3 Hybrid and the MIDI Express XT USB. Installed the latest Logic Pro. The result? Freezes, not responding messages, and beachballs. I even uninstalled Logic and its support components and then installed Performer Lite. Performer Lite couldn't even get to it's main window.

I then uninstalled the MOTU audio and MIDI drivers. Rebooted. Logic Pro and Performer Lite both ran without a hitch. Ugh.

You are doing something wrong or have a conflict but without providing specifics, how can anyone help you?

I use the exact driver to drive my 828mkII. It has to be this one:

Driver MOTU Audio Installer
Mac v89555 | Oct. 13, 2021

Supports macOS 13, macOS 12, macOS 11

Logic boots up fine on my Studio over Ventura 13.6; DP 11.22 does, too. No crashes. The 828 works, too.

[electricnote]

If you're running a Mac Studio and everything is working, then it should work for me since our setups are identical: running the Mac v89555 audio driver and Logic Pro, except I'm using an 828mk3 Hybrid. That is great information to have: this setup can work.

I thought any likely software conflicts were ruled out because it's now a completely factory-fresh configured Mac Studio with only MOTU drivers and Logic Pro installed. Nothing from old installs, no latent extensions, all fresh preference files, and nothing from prior user profiles. I didn't even configure email. It's not going to get any more basic than what it is right now and still be usable for music.

I didn't go into what I was doing with Logic because much of the time it won't even launch all the way and at other times I'll load a project file, let Logic idle, and then it freezes and takes macOS with it.

It's entirely possible that I am doing something wrong, although I've been an Apple support tech for over twenty years so hopefully I can at least connect cables correctly. And buy new USB 2.0 cables just to make sure.

The only remaining cause that I can think of is that the new 828mk3 is bad from the factory and it's messing with the USB datastream. I'm going to swap in my 828mkii (replaced because of a bad display LED and buzzing power module) to see if that resolves the issue. If it does, I'll swap the 828mk3 for a new one.

[electricnote]

Swapping the 828mkii FireWire for the 828mk3 Hybrid resolved the issue. No more freezing or non-responsiveness. Logic Pro and Performer Lite are running the way they should, as in they're running at all lol..

Sending the 828mk3 back for another one that unlike this one, isn't bad right out the box. I hope MOTU is performing a good burn-in and running comprehensive QA testing on these things before they ship them out.

[HCMarkus]

Swapping the 828mkii FireWire for the 828mk3 Hybrid resolved the issue.

Excellent news! Thanks for sharing the update.

[mikehalloran]

Yes. Since I almost never use it, I wonder why I keep my 828mkII around. Well, it still works and it's great for testing is one reason.

I find it hard to imagine that I will ever have the need to use it as was intended but it could happen, I suppose. I won't sell it but, if I make it available to someone on a permanent loan, there will be an understanding that I get to borrow if back it I want to test anything.