Migrating to Ventura?

[Rick Cornish]

With the recent announcement that another macOS is just around the corner, I suppose I should consider migrating from Monterey to Ventura.

I’m running an Intel Mac as my music computer (late-2013 Mac Pro 6-core with 64gB of RAM) and a 13” M1 MacBook Pro, primarily for business use.

Not worried about the MB Pro, but can anyone tell me of I might see any unwanted side effects from running DP, Finale, and Media Composer on my old Mac Pro under Ventura?

Thanks.

[mikehalloran]

I saw no difference with DP.

MacOS Preferences and permissions are different and take some getting used to. Now I'm starting to forget how certain things were done in Monterey and earlier. The OS now runs in its own Volume so that, if you want to back up to Monterey via APFS Snapshots, you cannot—must be a full TM Restore. If not MacOS related, Snapshots Restore still works for Apps and Docs as it did before.

My biggest—and only real—frustration is that many app developers have not tried their products over Ventura to know how things have changed. IK Multimedia is giving me grief at the moment with some installers that flat out don't work. With UVI, there are apparently some things I know that they don't but it is not affecting how anything runs—again installer issue but fairly benign.

[bayswater]

Maybe turn the question around and ask if there is anything you have that will work better on Ventura, and anything that won’t run well on Monterey for the next couple of years.

I’ve had every OS version since Mojave running on the test partition or volume and have yet to see anything work better, and a couple of things (not DAWs) that have not worked as well. At some point I expect to have to get past 10.14 and probably go to 12.6, but for now, a system that just works as expected is a joy.

[Rick Cornish]

I saw no difference with DP.

MacOS Preferences and permissions are different and take some getting used to. Now I'm starting to forget how certain things were done in Monterey and earlier. The OS now runs in its own Volume so that, if you want to back up to Monterey via APFS Snapshots, you cannot—must be a full TM Restore. If not MacOS related, Snapshots Restore still works for Apps and Docs as it did before.

My biggest—and only real—frustration is that many app developers have not tried their products over Ventura to know how things have changed. IK Multimedia is giving me grief at the moment with some installers that flat out don't work. With UVI, there are apparently some things I know that they don't but it is not affecting how anything runs—again installer issue but fairly benign.

Hmmm…. If Ventura partitions my drive, it seems like it would be best to wipe and do a clean install.

[mikehalloran]

…
Hmmm…. If Ventura partitions my drive, it seems like it would be best to wipe and do a clean install.

APFS SSDs should never be partitioned. Use Volumes instead. APFS Volumes are different than partitions in that you still have access to all the free space.

Through Monterey, your Macintosh HD Volume contained everything including MacOS, applications, docs etc. except for the Repair partition, actually a Volume since 10.13.6. You could create additional Volumes and, if they have other MacOS, boot into them separately.

With Ventura, a new Volume is created for the OS during installation and users have no way to access it directly. The older MacOS will be removed from the System Volume in the process—some new System Fonts will be added and a couple will be deprecated but few will notice. Other Libraries (Application Support, Users etc.) and User installed Fonts are unchanged. The Repair Volume is now called the Recovery Volume.

Anyway, a clean install is not a bad idea if you have the time. Get rid of the crap.

For the curious, here are the Container and Volume layouts for Intel and Apple Silicon for Ventura.

https://eclecticlight.co/2022/10/25/ve ... me-layout/

[Rick Cornish]

Maybe turn the question around and ask if there is anything you have that will work better on Ventura, and anything that won’t run well on Monterey for the next couple of years.

I’ve had every OS version since Mojave running on the test partition or volume and have yet to see anything work better, and a couple of things (not DAWs) that have not worked as well. At some point I expect to have to get past 10.14 and probably go to 12.6, but for now, a system that just works as expected is a joy.

Excellent point.

[mikehalloran]

I’m actually in the "if Ventura doesn’t offer anything you need, why go there?" camp.

Some of my work requires that I stay current but I certainly don’t believe that everyone needs to. Not going to Sonoma till I know that my current apps are compatible—may wait till I get my new Mac for that.

Also, being handicapped, the interoperability among my devices is important to me and Apple tightens that up with every round of MacOS/iOS/iPadOS releases.

There are a number of apps I use where the current versions cannot be installed over Mojave or Catalina while there’s one left that requires Mojave—when it goes 64 bit, that Volume will be gone. I might keep it on one of the 2012 MBPs that people keep giving me.

[bayswater]

Interoperability is a good thing and it’s what keeps me on Apple stuff. But it goes in both directions, unless you’re always buying newer Apple devices. I have some old iOS devices and when connecting them to anything beyond High Sierra, I’m told to update them to a iOS version they can’t use.

[dix]

Ever since migrating to Ventura launching DP has become glacially slow. On initial launches after starting the intro/splash screen gets stuck for a couple of minutes on VST MAS plugins, and another couple on MAS VST3 plugins. Subsequent launches are normal, until I restart. Clearly there is something wrong on my end. I tried reinstalling DP, but no help there. Any ideas? Thanks!

[Michael Canavan]

Ever since migrating to Ventura launching DP has become glacially slow. On initial launches after starting the intro/splash screen gets stuck for a couple of minutes on VST MAS plugins, and another couple on MAS VST3 plugins. Subsequent launches are normal, until I restart. Clearly there is something wrong on my end. I tried reinstalling DP, but no help there. Any ideas? Thanks!

It's very possible it's Ventura. RME are experiencing some crackles with their drivers on Ventura and people are saying it's actually the OS, not their drivers that is the problem. People are reporting no issues with the Sonoma beta.

I get crackles with youtube playback but not in DP. As if the priority of audio signals in the OS are all wonky? why only in non audio apps is the signal glitching occasionally?

[nk_e]

Wow. This is timely for me. I’ve been prepping my Mac for an update to Ventura. (Cleaning up the HD, resetting launch services, TM backup my current HD to a non Drobo drive, etc.) I downloaded the Ventura installer…but maybe I’ll just sit with Monterey for now. I’m hoping to get a Mac studio next year anyway, so that may be as good as time as any to deal with it….

[HCMarkus]

maybe I’ll just sit with Monterey for now. I’m hoping to get a Mac studio next year anyway, so that may be as good as time as any to deal with it….

This is probably a good idea. What would you gain from the move at this time?

[nk_e]

maybe I’ll just sit with Monterey for now. I’m hoping to get a Mac studio next year anyway, so that may be as good as time as any to deal with it….

This is probably a good idea. What would you gain from the move at this time?

Probably not as much.

I've gotten into the rhythm of staying one version behind Apple. I usually update just before the new version is released. In the past, this usually meant that most companies had updated everything and there were minimal compatibility issues and I was relatively current with the OS. With the the AS / Intel split, most of the new stuff is focused on AS, so the returns on upgrading are a lot less I think.

[dix]

I too usually hang back a version, and never update my OS until the latest version is at least a point iteration in. Since there's a couple things in Ventura I need, and I didn't see any DP users having issues I updated to 13.5. I suppose it's not impossible that MacOS 14.0 would resolve my DP issues, but it's at least as likely to introduce new ones. At the very least I'll wait until MOTU verifies Sonoma for DP.

Btw. My problems seem to be outliers. I wouldn't assume anyone else would have the same issues I'm having.

[mikehalloran]

I too usually hang back a version, and never update my OS until the latest version is at least a point iteration in. Since there's a couple things in Ventura I need, and I didn't see any DP users having issues I updated to 13.5. I suppose it's not impossible that MacOS 14.0 would resolve my DP issues, but it's at least as likely to introduce new ones.

Btw. My problems seem to be outliers. I wouldn't assume anyone else would have the same issues I'm having.

I would keep the Activity Monitor open to see what turns up. Look for anything in red. If it's consistent, you can have Apple view it on a shared screen and a tech should be able to help you isolate the culprit.