New Komplete Kontrol S Series Mk3 keyboards announced!

[James Steele]

Just got this info in email!

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... 9-s61-s88/

[James Steele]

Here's a pretty good breakdown of new features and what's different.

[James Steele]

Hmmm... I know I'm talking to myself in this thread, but I'm wondering: you'd have to assume that when these things start shipping the bottom is going to fall out from under the price of the Mk.2s on the used market? I like the new screen and the ability to change some of the MIDI settings without having to use the Komplete Kontrol app. Hopefully the touchstrip and pedal assignments no longer must be global, but could be set to different values for each profile?

I need to see if it might be time for me to get an 88 key Mk2 for cheap depending on what happens to the prices... so long as NKS support for the Mk.3 keyboards will continue to be backward compatible with Mk2.

[stubbsonic]

I'm following this thread for my reasons.

Ever since I said goodbyes to my EPS and EPS 16+-- IIRC, you still have a working Ensoniq of some kind-- since then I've been keeping an eye out for the right polyAT kybd/controller at a price I can afford. Yea, a long time.

There've been a few prodcuts here & there. I even got in on that Kickstarter VAX MIDI keyboard -- which was a sad failure. If that would have worked, that would have been the deal. The ASM Hydra was a welcome option, with a cool wavetable synth and a nice feature set. Most intriguing of all is the Osmose.

I've also been interested in the Novation SL Mk III, not for polyAT (which it lacks) but for the HSR (high scan rate) which allows for more accurate velocity response. I think some newer Nektar keyboards may have similar scan rates.

I still really like the idea of having PolyAT, but after waiting all these years, I'm not even sure I'd get that much use out of it. The limitation of AT as a control source is that it must always start and end at zero. Ramp up, wiggle wiggle, ramp down. So starting or stopping a note at a high value is not possible.

After all that, I'm still really interested in the keyboard. I'm less interested in all the NI integrations, though for Kontakt, they'd be handy. I'm a little worried that I'd not be able to configure the general MIDI stuff in great a enough detail.

Why oh why would they put buttons above the display?! Hmm where can I guarantee to block the display? Oh, how about up here? That's almost worse than a touch screen. At least with touch screen you can put soft buttons at the bottom.

[HCMarkus]

The limitation of AT as a control source is that it must always start and end at zero. Ramp up, wiggle wiggle, ramp down. So starting or stopping a note at a high value is not possible.

I love AT for vibrato depth control; it is instinctively natural. For other uses, it is often less viable for the reason you mention.

I have, for years, been asking MOTU to implement a MIDI plugin that imposes an envelope, single Attack/Release ("Lag"), over CC Data. It would be very useful if we could smooth the MIDI data stream and, especially when using AfterTouch, avoid both sudden onset and sudden release. The TEControl Breath Controller App provides this control, and it is quite nice to have available. I'd just like to be able to use it on AT data.

Although I have not liked the clacky keyboards on the two Nektar controllers I've owned (sold both quickly), these axes offered an AT Attack parameter. This smoothed the data stream to a degree and prevented At from being triggered when playing the keyboard aggressively. The AT was very nice to use. Too bad the keyboards were just so darn physically loud.

[James Steele]

Yeah... I forgot to mention the polyphonic aftertouch feature. I could see that being a selling point. Those buttons above the display are just how they were in the Mk2 which I have. They removed the buttons that were supposedly specific for Maschine (I don't have it and wasn't sure what those were for).

I might have said it before, but I like the fact that the touchstrip has been moved. Also the encoders are now touch sensitive so you can see a parameter value just by touching them. The Mixer mode (they renamed it DAW?) is actually pretty handy. Honestly, I've gotten sucked into the Eucon environment (I have a used Avid S3 arriving tomorrow via FedEx), but had I not gone down that rabbit hole, the Mixer/DAW mode in the S Series MK2 is pretty useful. You can page through all your tracks on the screens... eight at a time as I recall and can adjust level and pan and you can select a track which will give you control over the VI in Komplete Kontrol on that track.

It seemed pretty obvious that they'd finally build in Kontakt support. It seemed so silly to me that my S61 Mk2 had the light guides... and Kontakt would display would show them on the onscreen keyboard to denote zones or keyswitches, but you had to open Kontakt (an NI product) INSIDE Komplete Kontrol (an NI product) in order to get those zones to display on the light guide. Made no sense. Also, it kinda seems to me they could add Kontakt support to the existing Mk2 keyboards... seems like a software thing that would be technically possible... but why would they... time to sell those Mk 3s.

As I said before, might be interesting to see if prices for used Mk2 models start falling through the floor now. An S-88 Mk2 in good condition for $500 (or dare I dream, $400?) would be enticing to me. And note, I'm not a good keyboard player and the weighted keys actually are something I, as a guitar player... LOL, wouldn't necessarily choose. (To be honest, this won't make sense to you guys you can really play, I'd almost rather have an 88-key controller that had synth type action.). But I have some Kontakt instruments that have multiple zones that do different things spread all across the keyboard in a way that you can't access them all simultaneously without having to shift octaves. Sometimes you just physically cannot play the two notes you'd like to play simultaneously. I mean, yeah, you could maybe hold down one note, shift an octave and then play the other, but... yeesh...

[James Steele]

Oh... don't know if you caught the part about the Mk3 having a MIDI 2.0 mode?

Seriously... I don't know if someone like me even NEEDS MIDI 2.0. Throw MIDI 2.0 in with ATMOS as something that probably won't apply to me anytime soon.

[James Steele]

Ever since I said goodbyes to my EPS and EPS 16+-- IIRC, you still have a working Ensoniq of some kind-- since then I've been keeping an eye out for the right polyAT kybd/controller at a price I can afford. Yea, a long time.

Oh yes... forgot to acknowledge that. Yep... have an EPS16+ rack module and a Chicken Systems device that attaches to the SCSI port that makes it see an SD card as a SCSI drive. Have my whole library on that with lots of room left over. I love that thing still. Even have a custom patch list for it so combined with macros I can navigate wherever I want on the disk and load any instrument without touching the front panel.

I think I made a video once explaining it to Garth at Chicken Systems:

[waterstrum]

Hey James,

The EPS16+ solution is so great!
Very cool to see SCSI working with current systems.
Made me smile.

I'm still using the Mk1 Komplete Kontrol S61.
It fits on a slide-out shelf below my computer keyboard.
Very nice key feel and I've mapped the knobs for various VIs.
I was never a fan of the pitch bend and mod strips on the Mk1.
Looks like they fixed that in Mk2.
That said, I'm a huge fan of polyphonic aftertouch.
I'd jump in to the Mk3 just for that.

Thanks for bringing the info!

[stubbsonic]

The engine logic of the EPS series was impeccable. You'd have these three distinct realms of control AMP, PITCH and FILTER. The way edits affected INSTRUMENT, LAYER, and SAMPLE--- so clever and elegant. And the way it handled pitch mapping was also truly lovely. Talk about a clacky keyboard, (sort of) but I loved it.

PolyAT was fun for making all held voices move in different ways-- especially cool for chaotic, intense improv. Hmmm. I'm talking myself into it.

There are 5 stages of G.A.S. :

1. The enticement--- the ad.
2.The flurting--- "I have frustrated dreams."
3. The bargaining--- "I can sell this other thing."
4. The victory--- "I don't need it. I've moved on."
5. And finally... --- "Bought it anyway."

[James Steele]

5. And finally... --- "Bought it anyway."

I just did that recently. Bought a used Avid S3 control surface on eBay. I should get it tomorrow.

[stubbsonic]

My mental wrestling matches with various episodes of G.A.S. usually don't last long, I either "prevail" i.e., hard-pass; or I lose and click buy.

I've gone back & forth on this S Mk3 (61 key) a bunch of times. Some feature based, some career based:

Pros:
1. quality build
2. poly AT
3. price point

Cons:
1. limitations of MIDI controls & configurability (outside NI products)
2. not much detailed spec info, on response, etc.
3. given the focus of my work of late, I'd be buying it for a past-self who did more kbd gigging & sequencing than I do now.

[James Steele]

Hmmmm... more I think about it, this might be a good time for me to trade up to an S88 Mk2. Not necessarily crazy about the weighted keyboard (I'm not a keyboard player) but I have many Kontakt instruments that have multiple zones that my S61 cannot show (via light guides) all at once.

But I digress... I've been wondering if the Mk2 keyboards were going to drop in price now since the announcement. It only seems logical. My first bit of evidence: a seller in Los Angeles area (too bad I'm in San Diego) selling a clean S88 Mk2 for $550/offer:

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/m ... 65592.html

Hmmm... honestly, this might be a better way to go if I don't need polyphonic aftertouch. Might be a great time to get a deal from those wanting to unload to get the "latest, greatest."

Added plus to the 88: looks like you could place a full size Mac QWERTY keyboard on top of it on either side of the screens in the center. Can't do that on my S61. That's important because I have a mix position and I want to set up a composing position to my right. Full keyboard access at the controller keyboard for me would be a boon.

[stubbsonic]

Sounds like you're doing some full-spectrum thinking on this.

[James Steele]

Ha! Or ruminating! But it has started me thinking, if used prices of the Mk 2's go down significantly, it makes them a real bargain and they're very good for what they do. I have a lot of third party NKS support libraries that aren't liable to be updated to NKS2. I guess besides polyphonic aftertouch... not all that much to get worked up about. I'll be keeping my eyes open for a bargain S88 Mk2.