New Komplete Kontrol S Series Mk3 keyboards announced!

[stubbsonic]

I've def put the MkIII 61 on hold. I haven't outgrown my interest or enthusiasm about polyAT. I remember having to defend its usefulness on some forum-- as when I used to gig on the EPS, I used it quite a bit. ...though the music was a bit on the weirder side. But my need for it is more of a whim.

The interim priority is to start to configure my existing MIDI hardware into a more turn-key setup. Gigs for me have different gear setups: bass only, or guitar + keys + vox, or trombone + keys, I want to think about what each one needs to be easier or elevated in some way.

Gear always imposes some limitations, and puts its stamp on the sound in some ways. But I try to think about what the ideal sound is, and let the gear help me get in the ballpark.

[James Steele]

I've def put the MkIII 61 on hold. I haven't outgrown my interest or enthusiasm about polyAT. I remember having to defend its usefulness on some forum-- as when I used to gig on the EPS, I used it quite a bit. ...though the music was a bit on the weirder side. But my need for it is more of a whim.

I watched this video this morning;




I respect this guy, but besides that, it did remind me of one feature that might compel me to make the upgrade: specifically, that it will work directly with Kontakt. Apparently that feature will never make it retroactively to the older Mk2 keyboard. It may be silly, but not having to have Komplete Kontrol running as a "shell" for Kontakt 7 just to access Kontakt instruments and use the light guides for zones, might be enough of an excuse.

My dilemma, however, is that I will still want 88 keys if only to visualize and access all the zones on some instruments (shown by the light guides) without having to octave up or down... which is totally impractical in many cases. And the 88 key version of the Mk3 is expensive!! It will be a while before there would be good used units out there.

I might still try to get a used S88 Mk2 if prices drop further as an *interim* solution, knowing that when I in turn go to sell it, it won't be worth much, either.

[Michael Canavan]

I might still try to get a used S88 Mk2 if prices drop further as an *interim* solution, knowing that when I in turn go to sell it, it won't be worth much, either.

I have used Komplete since version 2, owned Kore, Rig Kontrol, and currently own the KK s88 MKII.

I just spent a couple days trying to needle an NI employee on another forum about these new keyboards. The keyboards like you mention, have hardware differences that allow them to use the light guides without the Komplete Control plugin. The other thing, the hardware is "easier" to program for, NKS2 is a thing for developers, so this begs a question I never got a solid answer on, whether this means that at some point in the next couple years will we see development of NKS 2 compatible patches for Komplete Control that are not compatible with the Komplete Control MKII NKS1 hardware.

I mean there are issues right now with NKS plugins and the transition to VST3 that Apple Silicon makes absolutely necessary because of the Steinberg moratorium on allowing VST2 versions of Apple Silicon plugins. It's entirely possible that Komplete Control becomes almost useless on Apple Silicon with the KK s series and "NKS1".

Another immediate concern, will the new keyboards support the DAW control that DP has with the KK s series?

One more, does the new Kontakt support for the Kontrol MK3 work with multi instruments? With the Komplete Control plugin it's only one instrument in Kontakt at a time.


Anyway I think they look nice, but there are lots of questions, and if it's compatibility that's important, then it's always best to wait it out and find out.

[James Steele]

Yeah... and this doesn't affect me, but it seems like these keyboard were always meant to be a studio beast... not really good for keyboardists who play live and might want to use to access multiple hardware modules, or perhaps even using MainStage? One thing that I noticed is that you can't really configure certain functions of they keyboard without having it connected to a computer and running the Komplete Kontrol app. I did notice that the Mk3 is a bit more "standalone" in this regard.

Another thing that annoys me about the Mk2 is that AFAIK, the CCs assigned to the touch strip or pedals must be GLOBAL... they have to be the same across all the various profiles you could recall. I might want one profile in which the touchstrip is CC7, and another one in which it's CC10. Nope sorry. These really are for people who plan to use them in the NI ecosystem. They don't seem to be a good general purpose MIDI controller keyboard. I know there was much grousing about lack of drum pads and faders. I don't care so much about that myself.

Oh and to repeat... one thing I do like about the S88 are the massive flat surfaces on either side of the screens which would be great for a full size QWERTY keyboard or Stream Deck.

[stubbsonic]

... These really are for people who plan to use them in the NI ecosystem. They don't seem to be a good general purpose MIDI controller keyboard. I know there was much grousing about lack of drum pads and faders. I don't care so much about that myself.

The mode which allows you to use it as a MIDI controller has a hardwired configuration. You can't reassign CC's to the knobs and buttons. It wasn't clear from the resources I found, whether you could have multiple zones (keyrange or velocity-range) on multiple channels. I'd need to study the manual to confirm or deny. But if you can't save multiple configs, then I can't imagine the MIDI implementation to be worth much.

And because of its tight integration with NI products, it's a bit like IK or more generally ad-ware in that you are buying an Alexa and trying to use it outside Amazon, or buying an Android and trying to use it outside Google (which I've done for many years).

Too bad, though. I do like the comments about the build-quality-- though I've yet to find anyone just comment generally on the quality of the velocity response.

[stubbsonic]

Before the news of the NI keyboard came out, I'd been considering the 61 key version of this one-- which for my needs seems more appropriate. , Though, reports that the keyboards are mechanically loud & clacky are concerning.

https://nektartech.com/impact-gxp88-gxp ... -keyboard/

[James Steele]

The mode which allows you to use it as a MIDI controller has a hardwired configuration. You can't reassign CC's to the knobs and buttons.

I do believe you can do this, but it cannot be done from the front panel from the keyboard itself. The only way to do it is from the Komplete Kontrol app when it is connected via USB to a computer and then save it as a profile, which I think you *might* then be able to recall when not attached to a computer.

[stubbsonic]

The mode which allows you to use it as a MIDI controller has a hardwired configuration. You can't reassign CC's to the knobs and buttons.

I do believe you can do this, but it cannot be done from the front panel from the keyboard itself. The only way to do it is from the Komplete Kontrol app when it is connected via USB to a computer and then save it as a profile, which I think you *might* then be able to recall when not attached to a computer.

Ah, well that would make more sense. But this does seem like an almost criminal limitation:

YES, you can use the S Mk3 in standalone mode!! But you'll need a computer to edit your configuration.

Adding to the irony is the huge display, more beefy internal CPU, and multiple soft knobs that would make such configuration a snap.

Not cool.

I suppose I should read the manual, But I'm just inclined to move on.

I don't like the black key shapes on the new Nektar KXP-- I prefer the more piano-like shape.

[James Steele]

But this does seem like an almost criminal limitation:

YES, you can use the S Mk3 in standalone mode!! But you'll need a computer to edit your configuration.

Actually sorry if I wasn’t clear. I was referring to the Mk2. My bad. That’s what I currently own and have some experience with. I think, but am not positive, that’s not the case with the Mk3?

[stubbsonic]

Before I comment further on the standalone and MIDI configuration capabilities of the Mk3, I'll download and read the manual.

I'm not seeing a manual yet (makes sense, since they are probably still subtracting features before release )

[stubbsonic]

I suppose my foot-dragging ambivalence now has a new wrinkle.

https://synthanatomy.com/2023/09/leak-k ... llers.html

In short, B & H leaked some details about a soon-to-be-released Korg controller keyboard. with polyphonic aftertouch (likely related to the ASM Hydra) and at least one feature of MIDI 2.0.

I have very little experience with Korg keyboards, and none with more recent builds-- but this keyboard, with its ultra slim profile could be especially nice for a cramped studio like mine. Lots of things to learn, but if they've got the right priorities, I'm interested.

[waterstrum]

I suppose my foot-dragging ambivalence now has a new wrinkle.
https://synthanatomy.com/2023/09/leak-k ... llers.html

Well done sir!

I offer a toast to foot-dragging ambivalence.
It is a great antidote for GAS.

The Korg looks pretty cool.
I do like their keyboard mechanisms in most of the models I've played.
As I'm coming from the KK S Mk1, the Kontakt integration is not a big deal for me.
I'll drag my feet for a bit and see what the Korg keystage has to offer.

[HCMarkus]

Quick rundown on my synth-action controller history, starting with the present:

I really like my Arturia Keylab 61 MkII. The keyboard is quiet and the feel is excellent (very close to my old Yamaha Motif ES6, sold a few years ago), mono aftertouch is useable, a vast compliment of controls and lots of pedal inputs. I use the drum pads for key switching, the faders for organ drawbars, buttons for Leslie control, and the transport controls with DP. Build quality is very nice, too.

I have an M-Audio Axiom 49 I bought used. It is plagued by loud keyboard clack, but comes in handy on the desk in front of me when I'm doing simple stuff as opposed to playing more intricate parts. The Expression Pedal input is wonky, so I use one of the Keylab pedal inputs in its stead.

I got tired of trying to use aftertouch on a Roland A-800. Even after turning the internal adjustment to full sensitivity and removing the felt strip under the keys, my fingers were breaking. I still use an A-500 for live work; it has lots of controls and fits in a Plano gun case that fits in airline overhead storage.

Before the Rolands, I had a couple of Nektar boards: Panorama (the motorized fader didn't work with DP) and T6; I couldn't tolerate the clackity keyboards.

The Motif ES6 had a nice quiet action with perfect aftertouch. I used it as my second keyboard live and in the studio for years. Built like a tank (and it weighed like one, too.) Terrible organ sounds made useable by adding a Mini Vent Leslie sim. Lots of sequencing features that I never used, what with DP being so much better.

If we go waaaay back, we'll eventually get to an Oberheim OB-1 and (gasp) Arp Omni....

* * *

With the new Korg and NI boards, I think I would miss the controls the Keylab provides. I don't know that I would use polyphonic AT much; don't miss it now, as my typical use for AT is bringing in vibrato on modeled solo instruments. But it is cool to see manufacturers bringing that feature to us (again) at last. The NI light guides working with Kontakt directly is a potentially useful feature; I never want to deal with Komplete Kontrol, especially after helping a friend sort it out. (It never really gets sorted out, just ask Spitfire.)

[Michael Canavan]

In praise of KK. MOTU did a great job with their implementation of DAW control, you can set up multiple controllers to be armed and ready to play, so in my case last night an Akai MPC Live for drums, a Roger Linn Linnstrument with two different tracks of MPE patches from Falcon and Plasmonic, then a half dozen plug ins controlled by the KK88 MKII here,
The brilliant part is you can use the Mixer selection to arm and jump to any track armed for the KK88 and it does not mess with the armed tracks for the Linnstrument and MPC.

Another cool thing, East west have a detailed NKS file for Opus, and it works with the light guide. So you get the same visible playable area and color coded keyswitches that you get with Kontakt. I think it would be a stretch if NI opened up the NKS2 spec to work like it does with Kontakt and allowed East West to have Opus outside of the KK software plugin but there's a chance.

[stubbsonic]

I appreciate this additional info very much. The Arturia info was especially useful to me.

Here's a bit of background about my admittedly obsessive attention to velocity scan-rates.

I used to do a fair amount of deep sample editing/mapping, and would create some velocity switched things with narrow zones-- as a type of natural variation and "element of surprise". With my keyboard controllers I'd occasionally analyze the velocities that were output and realized that some velocities were NEVER produced. For example, I could input a large number of notes and never see any velocities between 121-126 (for example). Some keyboards were worse than others, but it was clear that the slow scanning of the key-contacts meant that we weren't getting 127 levels of velocity (0 doesn't count). There were other factors, like how curves reduce range & resolution.

It wasn't so much that I felt the lack of resolution in playing, but just that I wouldn't know if some mapped velocity range was in some kind of no-man's-land of unattainable values. But also, there's something about knowing that the keyboard was being responsive to my playing as opposed to just rounding up or down to the nearest clock pulse.

The first time I ever heard a company acknowledge this issue was Novation when they hyped their HRS (High Rate Scan) tech with 10K scans per key. Nektar's support person said their keyboards had comparable scan rates but also said they put quite a bit of work in "balancing" their velocity response-- which I'm guessing means tweaking the range and curve.

As for pads & sliders, I'm thinking about how I might integrate a BCR-2000 and/or breath controller for more realtime fun. I don't care much about pads, as I can use keys for that. But I could see how they'd be useful. Weird to see controllers with

I like that the NI K S Mk3 has 4 pedal inputs. I use those quite a bit.

I like that the Korg Keystage has what appears to be an audio interface (output only?) where you could send the output of the VI you're controlling to the outputs of the controller. Nice touch (if true).