List of Plugs that don't play nice with DP11

[HCMarkus]

Yes, using the Motif as a MIDI controller should present no issues.

As an FYI, I used a Yamaha S90ES as my main control for years, with the MIDI delivered via USB. The Yamaha USB MIDI Driver is required for the direct USB connection. I currently use a Yamaha P255 as my 88. It is a consumer keyboard, and the Yamaha USB Driver is not required. I also use an Arturia Keylab MkII as well as, when scoring, an M-Audio keyboard. I can have all three (plus a Korg Pad Control) connected via USB without any issue.

I haven't used DIN MIDI for quite a while now.

[greg328]

Good info, I could consider doing a direct connect from the Motif to the Mac, but I have another keyboard hanging on that MIDI interface so I would have to give that up as a sound source. It’s just slaved I don’t use it for input.


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[chokobo99]

Lets all share a list of plug-ins below that you have found do not play nice with DP11 and which you have disabled.

I recently got a new mac mini M2 and DP 11 and am experiencing very sluggish interface with half frozen Beach Balls that eventually clear.

For me so far I can't get the Sound Toys bundle to pass the plug in inspection and DP freezes when I try to enable them.

What problem plugs have you identified?

Hi Tim,

Thanks for posting. This is very interesting. I've been tracking a very similar issue to yours. So far I've only seen it on the portables, and with Ventura. That you have an M2 mini suggests that you are running Ventura, unless you have the beta of Sonoma going on.

Do you have any other apps on your machine with which you could test? If not could you grab Reaper (it's sort of free, which is why I suggest it). Their UI will likely seem convoluted to a DP user (I find it so), but with a little effort you can test your plugins there to see if this is a plugin issue, or a DP issue.

I've been doing this sort of thing on my machines with Reaper and Logic. But I only have access to one M2 machine, and it's not a mini.

I am pretty sure at this point, due to the data I've collected, that this isn't a USER ERROR. It's likely a DP with Ventura, and very likely related to the M2, or portable related machines, which the mini might be such.

It's highly unlikely that you'll find changes in your behavior are going to properly solve this problem. What I have found helpful, if you want to get some work done, is to use minimal plugins, and that the ones you do choose be light weight in cpu use.

You can see how much a plugin is using by going to the DP menu:

Studio > Effect Performance

This will add a side panel with meters showing how much cpu time each instance is employing. And if you have serious work to be done either use a different machine, or a different app. DP doesn't seem to be all that happy with current setups.

As to the Beach Balls, I've often found that PACE/iLok to be responsible for this kind of behavior—for instance it cannot phone home, but that's a huge can of worms to tackle, and likely would piss off a whole bunch of punters so best not to go into it.

[James Steele]

Studio > Effect Performance

Or Shift + Y. Hotkeys are your friends!

As to the Beach Balls, I've often found that PACE/iLok to be responsible for this kind of behavior—for instance it cannot phone home, but that's a huge can of worms to tackle, and likely would piss off a whole bunch of punters so best not to go into it.

That might be if you're using cloud authorization? If you're using a hardware iLok attached to the Mac, I don't see why it would do any phoning home?

[Michael Canavan]

but that's a huge can of worms to tackle, and likely would piss off a whole bunch of punters so best not to go into it.

You have never posted your exact machine specs, what plug ins you're using etc. You've just posted non specific conclusions about M2 portables, without a shred of interest in solving your issues. Yet you feel like people are being hostile or unreasonable.

This is classic internet unintentional troll behavior. You're so certain of your conclusions that you don't see the need to give actual examples, and are annoyed at anyone who asks you to. You've decided the issues you and one other person have are due to "M2 portables" and act offended when others point out this is a near impossible situation.

If you do this long enough, you realize that the obvious conclusion is not always the right one. I've been you where I've had a problem and blamed the DAW, hardware etc. and I was wrong. In one case it was a combination of the real time nature of Ableton Live, an overtly aggressive power down of a certain Intel CPU, and NI Kontakt all coming together to glitch the first play through of a part in a song. i.e. it wasn't Ableton Live specifically that was at fault. It could have been, but it wasn't, even though this sort of thing did not happen in DP. You can see from the example that it's always possible it is a hardware issue, ( hence near impossible ), but it wasn't "Lives fault", nothing about plugins running in Real Time should cause that issue. Jumping to conclusions, not giving all the information, and setting yourself up as the victim, isn't the way to solve or at least get validation of your issues.

[James Steele]

I wrote a friend about this issue and this is what he said:

I've seen this happening in two scenarios, one with an external monitor and another without. The culprit on both was screen scaling which makes the whole SoC run at a different pace with lots of load on the limited RAM. Add to this that the M2 Air has a single-channel SSD and with the limited RAM they get a lot of swapping, which again limits the processing speed and the lifetime of the SSD which is not replaceable. Having only two ports to handle all this doesn't make it any easier either and might add stress to the bottleneck.

Someone on the thread mentioned the single-core performance problem, and on those M2 you only get to use 4 cores in total anyway. If you hit a core-intensive plugin the system will try to speed up the single-core performance but multi-core runs at a slower clock speed. Then if you're taxing the GPU with scaling, you'll be hitting a resource conundrum with clocking running wild. Yes, they talk about 8-12 cores but only 4 are performance; the rest are "efficiency" cores that won't be used for any DSP at all.

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[Rick Cornish]

Here's another one (kinda): Red Rock Sound Exciter.

For those of us who use AU, they offer the plugin in AU3 format, which DP does not presently support. I have not found time to try out the VST version, presumably that one will work.

ADDENDUM: The VST3 version works fine (first occasion I've had to use a VST plugin in DP on my Mac).

[James Steele]

ADDENDUM: The VST3 version works fine (first occasion I've had to use a VST plugin in DP on my Mac).

The only VST3 plug-ins that are pretty much required in Digital Performer are Melodyne (only format of that MOTU supports), and Console 1 (VST3 is only format that allows full support of the hardware controller).

[chokobo99]

ADDENDUM: The VST3 version works fine (first occasion I've had to use a VST plugin in DP on my Mac).

The only VST3 plug-ins that are pretty much required in Digital Performer are Melodyne (only format of that MOTU supports), and Console 1 (VST3 is only format that allows full support of the hardware controller).

Some MIDI processing plugins do as well for instance Hornet's Euclidian plugin

[chokobo99]

Studio > Effect Performance

Or Shift + Y. Hotkeys are your friends!

As to the Beach Balls, I've often found that PACE/iLok to be responsible for this kind of behavior—for instance it cannot phone home, but that's a huge can of worms to tackle, and likely would piss off a whole bunch of punters so best not to go into it.

That might be if you're using cloud authorization? If you're using a hardware iLok attached to the Mac, I don't see why it would do any phoning home?

As far as I'm aware PACE/iLok will still phone home even with the iLok attached. Not as frequently, but it still checks.

[chokobo99]

For those of us who use AU, they offer the plugin in AUv3 format, which DP does not presently support.

This is truly unfortunate, for there was a small window of time (now closed) where you could move your AUv3 plugins from the iPad over to the Mac, and they would work. Very likely because Mac plugins usually cost around ten times the price of iPad plugins this functionality was inhibited. Still if you moved your AUv3's over before the intervention they will still work in an app that supports them on the Mac.

[chokobo99]

This is classic internet unintentional troll behavior. You're so certain of your conclusions that you don't see the need to give actual examples, and are annoyed at anyone who asks you to. You've decided the issues you and one other person have are due to "M2 portables" and act offended when others point out this is a near impossible situation.

I would say that more of what you say is troll like behavior than what I have said. And I've not gone and told a new board member that they didn't know what they were talking about when clearly they did know what they were talking about. So maybe eat some of your own dog food Mike.

[chokobo99]

I wrote a friend about this issue and this is what he said:

Someone on the thread mentioned the single-core performance problem, and on those M2 you only get to use 4 cores in total anyway. If you hit a core-intensive plugin the system will try to speed up the single-core performance but multi-core runs at a slower clock speed. Then if you're taxing the GPU with scaling, you'll be hitting a resource conundrum with clocking running wild. Yes, they talk about 8-12 cores but only 4 are performance; the rest are "efficiency" cores that won't be used for any DSP at all.

The 8 core 4P/4E M2 is true of the 15" MBA, but the MBP can be configured with more performance cores than four. Also, the efficiency cores can be employed, maybe not by DP, but other apps such as Reaper will use the efficiency cores as can be seen in this video.

[Michael Canavan]

This is classic internet unintentional troll behavior. You're so certain of your conclusions that you don't see the need to give actual examples, and are annoyed at anyone who asks you to. You've decided the issues you and one other person have are due to "M2 portables" and act offended when others point out this is a near impossible situation.

I would say that more of what you say is troll like behavior than what I have said. And I've not gone and told a new board member that they didn't know what they were talking about when clearly they did know what they were talking about. So maybe eat some of your own dog food Mike.

Again, either clearly state your exact software issues with hardware run downs, or get called out for it. It's clear as day that you're not willing to give actual breakdowns of specific instances with details, and that makes you the unintentional troll.

Computers are complex machines with dozens of potential areas for conflict, and not always is your first assumption of why something is happening correct. This can only be resolved by giving complete details of the issue, what the specs are of the computer used, which plugins caused this, and what the issue looked like specifically.

When people make generalized damming statements, refuse to go into detail, and then get pompously arrogant about their conclusions, yeah that fits into the heading of a certain strain of troll. So either give a specific use case and details about the issue, and maybe even get some help, or continue to say non specific things in regards to hardware with the exact same chip in it as other hardware, but somehow different results according to your vague generalizations, and get called out for how dumb that is.