List of Plugs that don't play nice with DP11

[timsmolens]

Lets all share a list of plug-ins below that you have found do not play nice with DP11 and which you have disabled.

I recently got a new mac mini M2 and DP 11 and am experiencing very sluggish interface with half frozen Beach Balls that eventually clear.

For me so far I can't get the Sound Toys bundle to pass the plug in inspection and DP freezes when I try to enable them.

What problem plugs have you identified?

[James Steele]

For me so far I can't get the Sound Toys bundle to pass the plug in inspection and DP freezes when I try to enable them.

That's odd. I'm waiting to hear back from MOTU to validate some of these M2 issues. You can see my system info in my sig: M1 Max Mac Studio. I had no problem installing and validated the latest SoundToys bundle. It might be that it's not playing nice with the M2 or your Mac, but it's not just DP11 that's the only factor at play.

[HCMarkus]

Soundtoys good here, too, on M1 Mac Studio

[mikehalloran]

…
I recently got a new mac mini M2 and DP 11 and am experiencing very sluggish interface with half frozen Beach Balls that eventually clear.…

Apple's Activity Monitor and DP's Background Processing window can often show you what is hanging up.

In the Activity Monitor, a spinning beach ball should turn a process red. Immediately double-click on it and drill down on the various tabs and processes highlighted in blue until the culprit is revealed. Among the many on my system over the years, I cannot have any Corel product installed on my Mac because of a licensing/update daemon. Roxio Toast doesn't use it but all other Corel products do. Anyway, if I download anything from them, even a demo, it can hang up any of my apps including DP until I remove it all.

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You can make the Background Processing window visible from the Studio menu and pop it out of the Consolidated Window if you like. If a process is trying to run or a plug trying to load that DP doesn't like, it should show up here. Often, if it's something that DP won't allow, it will try to load three times before the app gives up and moves on. It's been awhile but I have solved many problems in DP 7.24, 8.x and 9.51 thanks to watching processes fail in the Background Processing window.

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Other than that, if you are using Antares apps or anything else that uses the CodeMeter Run Time for licensing, make sure that's up to date. This old thread gives the basics:
https://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69862

[Michael Canavan]

Soundtoys working fine on the M1 Air here, I have an M2 Mac Studio at home I'll check, but it may be something else that's the issue here.

In terms of plug ins that don't play nice with DP11, it's only AU Rosetta plugins that hardly play well with any DAW. So Absynth, Hybrid3, Loom II, (pretty much any Air plugin). Absynth in particular doesn't play nicely with Rosetta, the only DAW it works in on Apple Silicon that I own is Bitwig, because they have their own sandboxing of the VSTi version that allows it to run in Rosetta as if Bitwig was also running in Rosetta.

[James Steele]

In terms of plug ins that don't play nice with DP11, it's only AU Rosetta plugins that hardly play well with any DAW.

I've found a couple AU Rosetta plugs that seem to have a problem with DP or other way 'round:

Boz Digital El Clapo for example will cause a MAS error if you try to instantiate it if DP is running in AS native mode. Otherwise you have to run it inside Blue Cat Audio PatchWork, or launch DP itself in Rosetta to use it. On the other hand, Logic runs it just fine while running natively. (I don't use Logic much, but keep it around for testing.). So that's an AU that DP11 has a problem with that at least one other AU host doesn't.

There are a couple more, but I don't remember right now. I sometimes get around this by running the VST3 version instead. Sometimes that will work if there's an issue with the AU.

[timsmolens]

Thanks for the replies. I will try to figure this out. I will try the activity monitor trick and also see if I can find some enabled plugs that may be slowing it down. I know this is supposed to be the fastest computer I have ever had and so far is the slowest at least in DP11.

Truth be told I used migration assistant and am wondering if some remnant of that could be to blame for my sluggish performance and hanging beach balls. Any suggestions for files I can trash or fix the ills of migration assistant without starting over.

[HCMarkus]

Boz Digital El Clapo for example will cause a MAS error if you try to instantiate it if DP is running in AS native mode. Otherwise you have to run it inside Blue Cat Audio PatchWork, or launch DP itself in Rosetta to use it.

Latest BFD is good as an AU in DP11 on an M1. Took them a while, but they got it fixed.

All three of the Boz VIs (Clap, Snap and Stomp) appear to use the same engine and all crash DP nicely unless DP is running in Rosetta Mode. Boz's "Great Plugin Rewrite of 2022" has languished; I just noticed, we are now in 2023!!!

[mikehalloran]

…
Truth be told I used migration assistant and am wondering if some remnant of that could be to blame for my sluggish performance and hanging beach balls. Any suggestions for files I can trash or fix the ills of migration assistant without starting over.

Migration Assistant is fine for bring over your work files (Documents, Movies, Music etc.) and System Settings including Fonts.

Bringing over your Applications including Preferences and Support files is what brings in the crap as well.

Before you start, download a good Find application. Finder/Find and Spotlight are pretty useless for finding support files that need to be purged. I like Templemann's Find Any File shareware. If you like it and wish to buy, I recommend the App Store so you'll be notified when updates are available. It's free to evaluate.
https://apps.tempel.org/FindAnyFile/

I recommend making the Users/(your name)/Library folder visible. This lets you just navigate to it instead of using the GO menu. Open (your name) and right-click on the empty space and click on View options to see this. I've circled the box to check.

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It's quite possible that an incompatible plug-in is the culprit. You can try to remove anything old or plan to reinstall only the latest versions of your plug-ins. Go to to MacintoshHD(or whatever your System Drive is named)/Library/Audio/Plug-ins. This is not your Users Library (see below). First, look into the MAS folder—in DP 11, it should be empty—if not, plan on uninstalling and reinstalling DP. Next, open your Components, VST and VST3 folders. Either remove anything not current or send the contents of all three folders to the Trash. Running GetInfo will be of little help since it will show the dates you moved the file over, not when they were created. In my case, I have files such as Ozone 2 in my folders when the current version is Ozone 10. My recommendation is to Trash and reinstall but if it's easy to tell what the old stuff is, give it a shot.

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There's no guarantee that DP is the problem but that's a good place to start. Here's the list of what should be removed for a complete uninstall of DP including the Application Support files.
https://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/uninstalldp

Follow the recommendations to move your Preferences to the Desktop.

This will remove all versions of DP going back to 8. If you had anything earlier, I know what else needs to be found.

Go ahead, download and reinstall DP 11.22. Restore your Preferences and overwrite.

Reinstall your plug-ins if you trashed them. Old projects will let you know if what you used back then can't be found and you'll have to insert the latest versions as needed.

As to other apps, current Apple Apps are self-contained. Anything with a Ø over it should be removed. When trashing an app, look for the Application Support files using Find Any File and trash those, too. Reinstall the latest and greatest.

If you had a MacOS before El Capitán on your old Mac, let us know. There are some other tricks to learn if that's the case.

[James Steele]

All three of the Boz VIs (Clap, Snap and Stomp) appear to use the same engine and all crash DP nicely unless DP is running in Rosetta Mode. Boz's "Great Plugin Rewrite of 2022" has languished; I just noticed, we are now in 2023!!!

Yeah. You know, I pride myself on not behaving like a troll on the internet. I can't get away with it anyway as I use my real name on forums. But Boz and also TC Electronic have bought out some jerky behavior since both seem to be lagging inexcusably on native Apple Silicon support.

In the case of Boz, as you mentioned, they've been posting about their great plugin re-write of 2022, 2023 and looking like 2024 now. I stop by the site occasionally. I used to make comments on their blog expressing my dismay, displeasure and despair (the three Ds? 3D?) to no avail. They never comment or respond. Meanwhile, they're cranking out new plugs andI just got this in my email today:

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Seeing this just annoys the hell out of me. I ended up buying Robotic Bean Hand Clap Studio to replace El Clapo. I did load El Clapo into a project last night using Blue Cat Audio PatchWork as a shell, and hate to say, I really like the sound of it, but obviously Boz's attention is turned elsewhere. I made a comment once on a Facebook ad for one of Boz's new products which FINALLY elicited a response. I was told in so many words that they needed new products to fuel revenue so they could afford to bring their older plugins current. Fine. Not my problem. You want to let your customers find alternatives in the meantime, that's your *business.*. Oh and FYI, Das Boot is on sale for really cheap somewhere. $15 I think? Do I want to buy it hoping Boz will get around to ARM support? Normally I'd have jumped. Now I wonder if perhaps they coded those plugs in such a way that they simply don't have the resources to ever do the job? I don't know.

Then there's TC Electronic. I bought their DT-8210 Reverb and the DT-2290 Delay (cool plugs that come with nifty little hardware controllers). They are still not ARM in ANY format. There are all sorts of threads created over at their official forum which is just one section of a cumbersome seemingly proprietary board software for MusicTribe... I guess that's the mega corp that now owns them. People have asked for status updates FIVE MONTHS ago or more... and the company rep on the forum now simply ignores those threads/posts, while managing to reply to new, unrelated ones.

I can forgive being late to the party, but what absolutely frosts my ass (to use a favorite expression of a beloved uncle who is no longer with us) is when these companies refuse to give us reasonable updates and let us twist in the wind. In the TC forum, the rep said they were in beta with plugs and they were coming soon FIVE OR SIX MONTHS AGO! So yeah, I have a real problem not so much with companies that are merely ridiculously behind... but the ones that "treat the customers like mushrooms." (They keep them in the dark and feed them bullsh*t.)

When these companies FINALLY deliver... and that is IF they deliver... this experience is going to make me think long and hard about buying their software in the future.

Oh yeah... and Harman/Lexicon. I got the PCM Native Reverbs bundle. Great sound but they also won't give any timeline. I feel bad for the rep on their forum because he says they are working on it and it will happen, but he's been saying that for months. In his case, he carefully lets it be known that HE is being kept in the dark by people further up the chain of command, so he can't pass along anything other than what's been told to him. Fortunately, the Lexicon plugs *work* while DP is running native (thanks only to Apple adding that to AU support), but if I have an instance of one of those plugs in a project and pause the sequence and bring another app forward... the Lexicon plugin causes runaway CPU usage and just goes crazy: 125%, 150%, 200%+... redlining the Audio Performance meter.

Okay... sorry for the rant.

[greg328]

Glad this thread was started. I’ve got an M1 MacStudioUltra. Lots of sluggish behavior and spinning beach balls. Had a studio client over today in fact and she got to witness the ridiculousness. Pretty sure one of the big offenders is Ivory 3. Sounds great, this new V3 is a new modeling VI approach, but SUCH a CPU hog!! I contacted Synthogy tech support and they recommended running Ivory 3 in real-time, not pre-gen. So I’m doing that but I feel Ivory 3 is not ready for prime time. I’ll troubleshoot using Mike’s advice to try to isolate 100% the offenders-

I will say this— in the 15 months I’ve owned this M1 Studio Ultra, it has not been a great experience. Lots of latency and spinning balls- and I’m 100% NOT in Rosetta. I can only suspect third party plugs are not fully efficient yet in ARM machines.
Greg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[James Steele]

I will say this— in the 15 months I’ve owned this M1 Studio Ultra, it has not been a great experience. Lots of latency and spinning balls- and I’m 100% NOT in Rosetta. I can only suspect third party plugs are not fully efficient yet in ARM machines.

That's really odd. I don't doubt you, but HC Markus on this board has had an M1 Ultra Mac Studio from what I've heard, he's had a very good experience with it. I see you're using Tapatalk, so you may not be aware that with the web browser interface users can set up a signature that includes their system info. I was wondering what brand/model of audio interface you're using with your Mac Studio?

[greg328]

Yep-well aware that HC Markus has my same machine and is having a good experience. Color me jealous! Lol-

My audio interface is a UA Apollo x8. Using its most current software. And— I’m always striving to have the latest versions of all my software, and Mac OS.

I am indeed posting to this thread using Tapatalk. So that does not allow the viewing of my profile? It’s fully updated and visible when using my usual method of Mac Safari posting—

Greg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HCMarkus]

Sig shows, no worries.

Are you using your Motif as I/O by any chance? I recall a member having had issues in this regard; was that you?

I run lots of VIs but no audio through DP while recording; always external monitoring via my interface hardware. DP has been very solid with buffer of 128.

[greg328]

HC,
I am. using my Motif XS8 as a MIDI controller only--not using its SPDIF of Firewire capabilities--they are not connected.

I seriously doubt that the Motif is causing my latency and spinning beach balls--it works fine when local is turned "off" and I play the Motif through DP--by the way I'm using a MOTU MTP AV USB---been a workhorse for me forever. It's just MIDI, nothing data-heavy in use on that circuit.

And I can have only a few VIs in a sparse session, and the MIDI-into-VI performs fine.

I DID post those last messages to this thread after experiencing hell with Ivory 3 so they may be a bit biased against the Synthogy product. My workaround is to use either Motif XS piano (which is wonderful and still stellar after all these years IMO) or use Pianoteq/Addictive Keys/Arturia piano VIs during tracking, then replace with Ivory 3 when mixing final version. Maybe even print Ivory 3 to audio and turn it off! I've done that a few times--but I prefer to not create unnecessary audio when possible.

I admittedly need to explore how to monitor audio through UA Console--I had that running properly a few years ago with my previous MacPro 5.1. This will certainly improve latency issues---but---back then, even when monitoring audio through DP on my older Mac 5.1, it was very stable and did not present the issues my new Studio Ultra is exhibiting.

I find it fairly unbelievable because the new generation Apple Silicon machines were supposed to be "light years" ahead of the old Intel machines in terms of performance capabilities. I've not yet experienced that. One would be led to believe that there should be no need to set up external monitoring with such a magnificent machine!

When I have time next week, I'll do a deep dive on resolving these issues, and getting UA Console monitoring my audio, and I'll report back here my findings.