Waves by Subscription

[James Steele]

The people I feel sorry for most, are those users who just about now are considering taking the plunge and buying an Apple Silicon Mac... but got caught flat-footed and have V13 plugins and expired WUP. Those folks will NEVER get the AS native versions of Waves unless they subscribe.

I was lucky and updated my expired plugs to V14 because I got my Mac Studio back in July 2022. So I will probably have use of them for a couple years or more perhaps until some really compelling OS upgrade comes along I suppose.

[HCMarkus]

If anyone feels like letting them know how you feel, that's the link. I politely told them that my current V14 plugs are the end of the line for me and that when they break sometime in the future due to an OS, etc., they will not get a penny from me in subscription fees.

As everyone can see, you are NOT alone, James!

Anyone who was waiting for the arrival of an Apple Silicon Mac to WUP their existing Waves plugins to AS-Native should reach out to that "Inside Sales Dept" at https://www.waves.com/contact-us and ask to be offered the chance to WUP one last time to V14. I'd ask nicely, first, save the screaming to the third call.

Unless you are simply done with Waves, that is.

[David Polich]

Guess I'm in. the minority here - 'cuz I just signed up for Waves Creative Access and I'm glad I did..

My WUP was set to expire yesterday - March 26. So I signed up for a year's worth of their Ultimate, which comes out to $250 - $10 bucks more than re-WUP-ing would have cost me. At $250, to get all their plugins, that works out to less than a buck a year..for me. It's a total no-brainer..for me. It's a business write-off..for me.

Fact is, I use every single Waves plugin from time to time, at least 10 find their way into every project, and actually I think they have a lot of unique plugins you can't find anywhere else, like Harmony, O-vox, and Torque. Their synths are pretty good, their CP70 and Rhodes are good, I like their bass plugins. I haven't found anything else that does what MV2, or C4, or S1 imager do.

Bitching about the subscription plan isn't going to change Waves' plans going forward. Loading all their plugs via the new installer was glacially slow today, and for awhile their website was down, so it's my guess their new subs are actually popular with a lot of new customers who wouldn't otherwise be customers.

Guys...us old farts are not their target market anymore. Their target market is gamer kids in a bedroom with a laptop, a cheap audio interface and a cheap pair of monitors who think they are producers. We have spent as much money on Waves as we're going to. New customers will blink at a plugin that costs $100 to $300, or a bundle that comes in at $899. But plenty of people will be like "oh, $20...yeah I have that".

Subscriptions are the future whether we want it or not. Yeah, you can go ahead and silently protest by ditching your Waves plugs, or sending them angry emails, but that won't change a thing. This is their new business model and it's their right, because they are a business..not a public service.

So that's it..carry on with your angry tirades. Peace out.

[HCMarkus]

I hear ya' Dave.

I just think a lot of folks would have liked Waves to at least let them know in advance of the forthcoming changes so they could make a decision - like the one you just made to subscribe - armed with reasonable information.

Sure, it is a write-off. But too many write offs can drown a person, and if you previously invested in a life preserver, it is nice to know in advance that the preserver will be deflating.

[nk_e]

I hear ya' Dave.

I just think a lot of folks would have liked Waves to at least let them know in advance of the forthcoming changes so they could make a decision - like the one you just made to subscribe - armed with reasonable information.

That's a key point for me. I too just spent $254 with tax...on renewing my WUP on March 21. Had I ANY indication that this was coming, I'd have waited and tried out the subscription. Why not? I'd have access to all of the plugins for a year as opposed to having access to my limited set for the same price.

But nope. I just forked over $250 for my existing set of plugs. No warning. No grace period. No recourse.

And yes, I was fine doing that before. (Or sorta fine I guess.) I should be fine still, right? Well I don't feel fine. I just feel taken advantage of....

[HCMarkus]

I hear ya' Dave.

I just think a lot of folks would have liked Waves to at least let them know in advance of the forthcoming changes so they could make a decision - like the one you just made to subscribe - armed with reasonable information.

That's a key point for me. I too just spent $254 with tax...on renewing my WUP on March 21. Had I ANY indication that this was coming, I'd have waited and tried out the subscription. Why not? I'd have access to all of the plugins for a year as opposed to having access to my limited set for the same price.

But nope. I just forked over $250 for my existing set of plugs. No warning. No grace period. No recourse.

And yes, I was fine doing that before. (Or sorta fine I guess.) I should be fine still, right? Well I don't feel fine. I just feel taken advantage of....

One good thing about your purchase... you have access to V14 and possibly V15, and thus should be good for the move to Apple Silicon you may well make someday in the future.

[bayswater]

I lime this post from the “alternatives” thread on GS.

“It’s kind of funny, we’re at the point where we need new plugins to model the sound of vintage Waves plugins”

Otherwise I’m not finding the google spreadsheet that useful. Looking for alternatives for the Ren bundle, which a lot of people appear to be doing, all kinds of plugins are getting tossed in, and it seems to me the claimed similarities among them and with the Waves plugin are a bit thin. I’m going to hold off for a while and see what other providers deal up.

Something that replaces Ren Bass would be nice. I can probably live without the other parts of Ren, if there was a reasonable sub price for the bundle, I’d likely go for it.

[nk_e]

I hear ya' Dave.

I just think a lot of folks would have liked Waves to at least let them know in advance of the forthcoming changes so they could make a decision - like the one you just made to subscribe - armed with reasonable information.

That's a key point for me. I too just spent $254 with tax...on renewing my WUP on March 21. Had I ANY indication that this was coming, I'd have waited and tried out the subscription. Why not? I'd have access to all of the plugins for a year as opposed to having access to my limited set for the same price.

But nope. I just forked over $250 for my existing set of plugs. No warning. No grace period. No recourse.

And yes, I was fine doing that before. (Or sorta fine I guess.) I should be fine still, right? Well I don't feel fine. I just feel taken advantage of....

One good thing about your purchase... you have access to V14 and possibly V15, and thus should be good for the move to Apple Silicon you may well make someday in the future.

That's true. And that's what I'm trying to keep my focus on. It's kind of silly to be upset about it. What's done is done.

I find it interesting that they did not choose to give something as simple as a 30-day warning, announce a grace period for the recently WUP'ed, or do any other sort of "change management". I mean, if they had done any of those things folks would have howled anyway to be sure, but the financial result would likely be the same with less vitriol. They would have gotten 1) a lot of people rushing to "WUP it" (equaling an infusion of cash); or 2) people opting for the subscription instead of WUP'ing; or 3) a group of folks that walk away (which would happen however they did it).

But my guess is that the net result financially would be largely the same...they would just have avoided some of the ill-will and bad after taste created by taking this approach to implementing the change.

Anyway, enough life energy spent on this. Onward...

[James Steele]

One good thing about your purchase... you have access to V14 and possibly V15…

Unfortunately, I think V15 is off the table. I quoted part of Waves’ FAQ earlier in this topic where they said if you have current WUP you will still get updates to V14 plug ins. They were very specific about V14 which leads me to believe V15 will only be for subscribers.

[James Steele]

Bitching about the subscription plan isn't going to change Waves' plans going forward.

I don’t take that as a given. Avid had to back down and make perpetual licenses available after major blowback. It was somewhat through the back door by letting third party resellers sell them as well as “reinstatement” licenses. A lot of guys buy those for $350 and hold them in reserve and let their support expire. If you can go more than a year and a half without needing to upgrade you’ve come out ahead.

Also, Plug-in Alliance tried an all subscription model or something similar and backed off due to blowback. So Waves might reconsider and grandfather in perpetual license with some new modified WUP program.

Subscriptions are the future whether we want it or not. Yeah, you can go ahead and silently protest by ditching your Waves plugs, or sending them angry emails, but that won't change a thing. This is their new business model and it's their right, because they are a business..not a public service.

So that's it..carry on with your angry tirades. Peace out.

Tirades? I’m not so quick to just give up the fight or consider it fait accompli. Other companies have had to back off or modify their business model because of user outcry. Maybe they won’t give up the subscription, but if they modify how they treat perpetual licenses, which is a possibility, that’s worth it. Not every one uses EVERY plug in Waves makes. In fact, there are so many as good or better alternatives out there, I’d hazard if you use EVERY Waves plug-in you are part of a very small select group.

Also, in case you haven’t noticed, small independent developers have been using the Waves announcement to launch sales of their own bragging about how they don’t make you subscribe. If there’s a backlash against this that drives consumers to do business with small independent developers instead of a big corporate “Walmart” of plug-ins, maybe that’s a good thing?

[James Steele]

That's a key point for me. I too just spent $254 with tax...on renewing my WUP on March 21. Had I ANY indication that this was coming, I'd have waited and tried out the subscription. Why not? I'd have access to all of the plugins for a year as opposed to having access to my limited set for the same price.

True. But if you WUP’d to V14 your “limited set” will never expire and keep working for potentially years unless you decide to upgrade to a MacOS version that breaks it.

On the other hand, if you didn’t WUP, you’re completely on subscription and if you let it lapse, you have nada. Not even your limited set.

I’m personally glad I WUP’d to V14 as I have the Horizon Bundle, and several others that are working fine on Ventura and I imagine I’ll be using this Mac Studio a good many years and V14 will probably continue to work fine for the next MacOS (or even two).

Only thing that could mess that up is if Waves pulls something shady. I actually documented how running Waves Central did a seek and destroy on my old but working V9 plug ins back when I still had old versions. I actually watched as the installer deleted them off my drive any time I installed or updated plugs with Waves Central. Still… I doubt they’d do something that brazen.

[bayswater]

Guess I'm in. the minority here - 'cuz I just signed up for Waves Creative Access and I'm glad I did..

Dave, seeing your posts here and other places over many years, it’s apparent you know more about the bowels of the business than most of us, but I don’t see how Waves is going to grow the business with bedroom based gamers.

For me, it’s not a rant, just a logical decision. I only use a few of their plugins regularly, so they’ve “fired” me as a customer, and so I need to find another supplier.

Like you, I thought they had made a rational business decision despite my specific interests. But looking out there at various forums, it’s a almost exclusively a negative shitstorm. Pity the poor moderator on the Waves forum. His “we’re listening” message is not going over well. It would be interesting to listen in on the board room discussions.

[pencilina]

I think the subscription and its implementation is horrible. Spending 200 bux to Wup every 3 or 4 years was not as big a deal as shelling out 250 a year (no to mention the lack of 2nd portable licenses). As much as I've generally loved mixing with waves over the last 25 years I'm done if they stick with this. I have enough alternative plugins to pretty much move on without much of a gap in my toolset but its not going to be completely easy as Waves makes so many of my go to plugins. I think what they did with no advance notice is about as nasty as it gets in terms of customer relations.

[David Polich]

Bitching about the subscription plan isn't going to change Waves' plans going forward.

I don’t take that as a given. Avid had to back down and make perpetual licenses available after major blowback. It was somewhat through the back door by letting third party resellers sell them as well as “reinstatement” licenses. A lot of guys buy those for $350 and hold them in reserve and let their support expire. If you can go more than a year and a half without needing to upgrade you’ve come out ahead.

Also, Plug-in Alliance tried an all subscription model or something similar and backed off due to blowback. So Waves might reconsider and grandfather in perpetual license with some new modified WUP program.

Subscriptions are the future whether we want it or not. Yeah, you can go ahead and silently protest by ditching your Waves plugs, or sending them angry emails, but that won't change a thing. This is their new business model and it's their right, because they are a business..not a public service.

So that's it..carry on with your angry tirades. Peace out.

Tirades? I’m not so quick to just give up the fight or consider it fait accompli. Other companies have had to back off or modify their business model because of user outcry. Maybe they won’t give up the subscription, but if they modify how they treat perpetual licenses, which is a possibility, that’s worth it. Not every one uses EVERY plug in Waves makes. In fact, there are so many as good or better alternatives out there, I’d hazard if you use EVERY Waves plug-in you are part of a very small select group.

Also, in case you haven’t noticed, small independent developers have been using the Waves announcement to launch sales of their own bragging about how they don’t make you subscribe. If there’s a backlash against this that drives consumers to do business with small independent developers instead of a big corporate “Walmart” of plug-ins, maybe that’s a good thing?

I know I'm in the minority here on this issue. Maybe I'm the only one who is pro-subscription, I don't know.

Yeah, maybe Waves will relent and bring back WUP or perpetual licenses. Maybe Apple will start making machines that use Intel chips. Maybe there will be world peace. But I'm not counting on it.

Personally, my attitude is to get over it, accept the new paradigm, embrace it, and move on. I have way too many projects going and too few years left on this planet to waste precious time wringing my hands in anguish over how Waves conducts their business.

[James Steele]

Maybe Apple will start making machines that use Intel chips. Maybe there will be world peace.

Hardly analogous.

…waste precious time wringing my hands in anguish over how Waves conducts their business.

Interesting. Is that what you think I’m doing by voicing my displeasure with the way they made this transition? Hardly. I’m not obsessed with it. But as a consumer, there’s a need to call it out when a company shows a disregard toward their customers.