New M2Pro Mac Mini trouble w/ 828ES interface

[confusionboats]

Bought a souped-up Mac Mini with M2Pro CPU, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD, running MacOS Ventura. Goal: use it primarily for Logic Pro. Was running into capacity/cpu limitations with slower old MacBook Pro machine.

Problems:
MOTU 828ES and Mac Mini not working together. Plus on the Mac's display there are now TWO "M" logo pulldown menus in the upper-right menu bar on screen. Both offer Pro Auto Control menu items; one can talk to the 828ES, the other cannot. The one that can, can only reboot it. No audio detected.

What did I forget to do? What things should I check for to troubleshoot further?

(ps yes I have a call in to MOTU but not until this afternoon... hoping the user forums will beat tech support and I can be productive sooner!)

[HCMarkus]

I'm running an 828ES with a Mac Studio, connected via Thunderbolt. OS is Monterey 12.6.2 and DAW is DP 11.21. No issues except occasional spontaneous reboots on shut down if I don't turn off the 828ES first (as has been discussed in other threads here.)

Of course, select your interface for I/O in your DAW.

If you are connecting via TB, you might want to try USB.

Did you use Migration Assistant? When I migrated, I used M.A. for Network Settings only. Maybe time for a clean install; remember, your new Mac has a completely different CPU/GPU architecture. The two MOTU Logos suggests a problem deep down in your system.

When you get it working, you are gonna' love your new Mac!

[James Steele]

Yep... the TWO drop down menus should not be happening you should just have one. Did you use a genuine Apple TB3-to-TB2 adapter? If you used a third party one that might account for the communication problems... but having the two menu items is very strange and can't figure out how that might have happened.

This is the adapter you should be using:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MQ26QIY/

[confusionboats]

Yep... the TWO drop down menus should not be happening you should just have one. Did you use a genuine Apple TB3-to-TB2 adapter? If you used a third party one that might account for the communication problems... but having the two menu items is very strange and can't figure out how that might have happened.

This is the adapter you should be using:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MQ26QIY/

Wait so I need an adapter to go from the USB on the back of the 828ES into one of the Thunderbolt plugs on the back of the Mac Mini? That could well be it.

I was thinking of switching to Ethernet (cat 6 cable?) between 828ES <--> MacMini, to free up Thunderbolt ports for other stuff. Any pros/cons to using Ethernet just between them? Would I need a hub or direct-in on either end?

[HCMarkus]

James is assuming you are connecting via Thunderbolt, not USB. The MOTU 828 needs a TB 1 or 2 cable. The adaptor converts to TB3 via the USB C port.

You don't need an adaptor if you connect via USB AND use one of the USB A ports. Or if you use a USB A to USB C cable from your 828 to the Mac.

Connecting via Ethernet is inferior to TB or USB; slower and limited sample rates and channel count.

All of this almost certainly does not have anything to do with the dueling MOTU Icons you are seeing. I'm guessing a fresh install of your OS and the MOTU Pro Audio driver is what you will ultimately need to do.

[confusionboats]

James is assuming you are connecting via Thunderbolt, not USB. The MOTU 828 needs a TB 1 or 2 cable. The adaptor converts to TB3 via the USB C port.

You don't need an adaptor if you connect via USB AND use one of the USB A ports. Or if you use a USB A to USB C cable from your 828 to the Mac.

Connecting via Ethernet is inferior to TB or USB; slower and limited sample rates and channel count.

All of this almost certainly does not have anything to do with the dueling MOTU Icons you are seeing. I'm guessing a fresh install of your OS and the MOTU Pro Audio driver is what you will ultimately need to do.

Just a quick follow-up. Deleted the MOTU drivers and re-installed from scratch; the dueling MOTU icons are gone, and everything's working again. The MOTU support guy really pooh-poohed the use of Ethernet connections except when doing firmware updates into the 828ES, one of which we did do.

Anyway, problems solved.

Now onto the next problems with getting this Mac Mini M2 Pro.... a lot of the AU and VST plugins are unhappy or need updates or whatever.... weekend consumed with that stuff. Onwards!

Thanks all!

[mikehalloran]

Yep... the TWO drop down menus should not be happening you should just have one. Did you use a genuine Apple TB3-to-TB2 adapter? If you used a third party one that might account for the communication problems... but having the two menu items is very strange and can't figure out how that might have happened.

This is the adapter you should be using:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MQ26QIY/

Wait so I need an adapter to go from the USB on the back of the 828ES into one of the Thunderbolt plugs on the back of the Mac Mini? That could well be it.

I was thinking of switching to Ethernet (cat 6 cable?) between 828ES <--> MacMini, to free up Thunderbolt ports for other stuff. Any pros/cons to using Ethernet just between them? Would I need a hub or direct-in on either end?

Yes/No/Not quite. USB-C is a port, not a protocol. Although the ports support TB 3/4 back to USB 2, not all USB-C cables do. In fact, many cables don't. If the specs do not include 480kB/s, then USB 2 is not supported.

The correct cable is USB 2. If you have a USB-B to USB-A cable as came from MOTU, this USB-A to USB-C adapter is all you need.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CV ... asin_title

If you a cable of a different length, these should do nicely. Don't worry that they are called printer cables. They support USB-2 only.
https://www.amazon.com/CableCreation-Pr ... _sspa?th=1

Of course, you can still do a Thunderbolt cable through the Apple adapter. The cable must be Thunderbolt 1 or 2. So-called "Thunderbolt compatible" AV monitor cables support mini DisplayPort only and are not true TB cables — those will flat-out not work. These do:
https://www.amazon.com/Certified-Cable- ... ref=sr_1_4

[HCMarkus]

Anyway, problems solved.

Now onto the next problems with getting this Mac Mini M2 Pro.... a lot of the AU and VST plugins are unhappy or need updates or whatever.... weekend consumed with that stuff. Onwards!

Thanks all!

Glad you are up and running again, and that you didn't have to reinstall macOS. I had an issue back in Mojave, and recall being advised by MOTU tech support an OS reinstall was the only way to get a truly clean MOTU driver installation!

Check out Kate's PlugInfo from the App Store... a $2.99 App that will help you sort thru your AS/Intel plugins a lot more easily.

[James Steele]

The MOTU support guy really pooh-poohed the use of Ethernet connections except when doing firmware updates into the 828ES, one of which we did do.

He's definitely right about that. I guess modern MacOS can support AVB directly, but like HCMarkus said, doing so really is far less flexible and efficient than connecting via Thunderbolt or USB. The only time I would use it is in a situation like mine where I have daisy-chained a MOTU 24Ai off the back of my 828ES as an expander. That way I was able to rack in just above my hardware synth modules and run very short audio cables from the synth modules to the 24Ai, and then run a single Ethernet cable to the 828es which was racked in my desk.

[HCMarkus]

Ethernet for AVB connection to a second interface: Yes!

[James Steele]

Ethernet for AVB connection to a second interface: Yes!

I'm telling you... I LOVE it. I can remember having my hardware module rack placed where each module needed two 8-foot audio cables with 1/4" phone connectors at both ends. Now it's all on one Cat5e cable and I only need very short audio cables to the modules from the 24Ai, and once I figured it out, the Phoenix connector is very convenient. No need for the expense of 1/4" connectors on the end that connects to the 24Ai. Just strip the wires and push into the correct slots in the connector and tighten the set screws.