More consolidation: Image-Line acquires UVI

[James Steele]

Just heard about this:

https://www.drakestar.com/our-work/drak ... image-line

I hope they don't wreck UVI. UVI seems like a really top notch developer.

[Killahurts]

I hope they don't wreck UVI.

Yeah, me too.

[Rick Cornish]

I hope they don't wreck UVI.

Yeah, me too.

+1 on that! UVI is an important part of the electronic music industry.

[stubbsonic]

Image-Line (in my limited experience) didn't give much love to their VI's, especially where Mac is concerned. Perhaps they are restructuring in a way that will improve their mac support across the board (?).

Morphine & Drumaxx still work on my 2012 MBP (Mojave, 10.14.6), I haven't tried installing them on the new machine.

I don't have any skin in the game, as I don't use any UVI stuff.

[James Steele]

I hope it works out well. UVI doesn’t necessarily discount their software much, but it’s good quality. Anytime I’ve gotten a UVI Falcon expansion (they had a 2-for-1 sale recently) I’ve been impressed and the overall quality of the libraries. Plus the seemed to strike a good balance between subscription and buying outright offering you straightforward options for both.

[nk_e]

FWIW, Image-Line also has owned Melda Productions for a while. I take that as a good sign because they have really left them alone to do their own thing.

[stubbsonic]

FWIW, Image-Line also has owned Melda Productions for a while. I take that as a good sign because they have really left them alone to do their own thing.

That is interesting to know. Yea, it seems Melda is its own little world. If you hadn't said, I'd never have guessed.

[Michael Canavan]

IMO this is never the best thing ever. Even Apple buying Logic was IMO in many way detrimental to Logics development, it was suspiciously Apple like concessions to new users or UX, that directly stood the way of the workflow I had built up in Logic after the acquisition, that had me come back to DP.

I don't think any of that will happen with UVI. My only concern is the opposite issue completely with UVI and Apple. Image-Line have always been adversarial towards Mac OS, having coded in Delphi back in the day they took 20 years to get a Mac version of FL Studio. They openly complain about coding for Apple Silicon, their employees make comments about how overpriced Macs are on KVR etc. To be fair they have one of the best DAW upgrade policies ever for FL Studio, it's free for life, no paid upgrades. The downside to that is their little sample container for audio literally has to use seconds to change pitch, some parts are obviously not being worked on.

Then there's the other acquisitions, Melda Image-Lines other acquisition are also openly anti-Apple, this was their response to security changes that had them rewrite parts of their code, in hindsight obviously to prepare for Apple Silicon. https://www.meldaproduction.com/tutoria ... to-windows Then there's Angus from FXpansion. While not as vocally anti Apple, he has stated the case for more affordable PCs than Macs, and in conversations about AU and the FXpansion VST/AU wrapper he let it be known that another standard was a bad idea etc.

UVI have great Mac OS support, my only concern is they buy into the culture of Image-Line etc. where there's resentment and partisanship, since Image-Line chose some of the most vocally critical of Apple companies and employees to hire/acquire.

[James Steele]

…this was their response to security changes that had them rewrite parts of their code, in hindsight obviously to prepare for Apple Silicon. https://www.meldaproduction.com/tutoria ... to-windows

Did they remove the page? The link was redirected when I tried it in Tapatalk.

[Michael Canavan]

…this was their response to security changes that had them rewrite parts of their code, in hindsight obviously to prepare for Apple Silicon. https://www.meldaproduction.com/tutoria ... to-windows

Did they remove the page? The link was redirected when I tried it in Tapatalk.

Must not work in tapatalk, works fine in Safari.

[James Steele]

Must not work in tapatalk, works fine in Safari.

Ahhh, indeed you're right. Looking it it now from my computer's browser.

I've just barely skimmed the beginning of their screed there, but if they had hoped to guarantee Mac users won't be buying any of their plug-ins, this pretty much seals the deal for me! I'm thinking maybe they just may not have the "chops" in terms of coding to deal with Apple's changes (right or wrong). Seems UVI has had no problem keeping caught up. UVI has done an admirable job of keeping their products working in Apple Silicon and even have supported AAX in AS-native which MANY, MANY developers haven't done yet or are still playing catch up.

Let them just develop for Windows only if they want. I won't miss them. They can also see how that revenue stream works out for them since it seems Windows software is "kr**ked" more than Mac software.

[Michael Canavan]

Must not work in tapatalk, works fine in Safari.

Ahhh, indeed you're right. Looking it it now from my computer's browser.

I've just barely skimmed the beginning of their screed there, but if they had hoped to guarantee Mac users won't be buying any of their plug-ins, this pretty much seals the deal for me! I'm thinking maybe they just may not have the "chops" in terms of coding to deal with Apple's changes (write or wrong). Seems UVI has had no problem keeping caught up. UVI has done an admirable job of keeping their products working in Apple Silicon and even have supported AAX in AS-native which MANY, MANY developers haven't done yet or a still playing catch up.

Let them just develop for Windows only if they want. I won't miss them. They can also see how that revenue stream works out for them since it seems Windows software is "kr**ked" more than Mac software.

The irony is he was able to port to Apple Silicon super quickly because of all the work he had to do to get it Catalina ready. He also very obviously uses exactly the same framework GUI wise for all of his plug ins, so getting them to function correctly on Catalina made it easy to port to Apple Silicon.

The guy has a history of throwing fits about Apple, and honestly his take on Logic gives away his complete inability to be objective about it. The slower pace of Windows development, the fact they're not jumping on the SOC concept, all of that is easier on developers, (the fact they can blame Windows legacy code is probably a bonus as well! ), but the reality is a good developer in audio at least will get to 50/50 between Mac and PC. Melda screw up their Mac sales all the time, so I doubt it's 50/50 but I have no doubt that U-He, PSP, FabFilter, iZotope etc. etc. are 50/50.

[bayswater]

I had some experience with some aspects of this debate when working at a large corporation looking at various system alternatives being considered for front line organizations. Talking to a lot of vendors, developers, users, and going to no end of IT conferences, etc. I saw two basic camps.

One camp markets to gatekeepers; IT management, developers, etc, but not users. Their pitch is to buy their platform because it gives you control. This includes Microsoft. More than one MS employee told me they don't give a rat's ass about end users because that's not who makes the purchase decision. The general message from this camp is that if you give end users Apple computers they'll do whatever they want with them, and we can't have that.

The other camp markets to end users and uses that to influence the earlier stages of the supply chain. Apple is in this camp. The message is about all the wonderful stuff the end user can do, not about control, or how easy it is for developers and IT admin. That leaves it up to admin to develop the controls and restrictions they need. They don't care about end user experience, and see no point in this approach.

CIOs and CFOs have no doubt about which camp they're in. And some developers have a hard time understanding that what makes life easy for them, doesn't necessarily make life easy for their end users. B oth of these parties are part of the big picture and can't be ignored, even by the seemingly all powerful Apple Corp.

As for us, Apple's current approach might make our lives easier in the long run. Right now, Silicon and Ventura is a big mess as you can see from the threads on this forum. It's easy to blame the developers, but I think Apple took a big risk if they can't bring the developers, others in the industry, and regulators along with them. Some clever people in Redmond must wondering if they have some opportunities.

[James Steele]

As for us, Apple's current approach might make our lives easier in the long run. Right now, Silicon and Ventura is a big mess as you can see from the threads on this forum. It's easy to blame the developers, but I think Apple took a big risk if they can't bring the developers, others in the industry, and regulators along with them. Some clever people in Redmond must wondering if they have some opportunities.

It seems to me that Apple has managed to pull this off time and time again. I'm pretty confident they'll get the kinks worked out before too long. It may take users like us to drag developers along kicking and screaming by pressuring them to support Apple Silicon natively. I'm getting tired of reading "... compatible with Apple Silicon." Or developers who have been dragging their feet posting in their FAQ "...runs great in Rosetta." I don't care. These new processors have been out a long time and it's time for developers to get with the program. If they're too late to the party, I may have found an alternative to their plug-ins, and by the time they roll out the update (requiring a paid upgrade) I may just pass.

I'm amused a little to see the frustration at the Avid DUC. You see some Pro Tools users getting annoyed that developers are slow updating AAX plugs to AS-native, yet there isn't even a "certified" AS-native version of Pro Tools yet... the first "public beta" dropped 12/27/23... less than 2 months ago, yet some feel put out. You have to kind of blame Avid for that one. Many AAX plugs are now AS-native, but some developers like Softube have flatly stated they're not going to do it before Avid released a certified AS-native Pro Tools.

[nk_e]

I had some experience with some aspects of this debate when working at a large corporation looking at various system alternatives being considered for front line organizations. Talking to a lot of vendors, developers, users, and going to no end of IT conferences, etc. I saw two basic camps.

One camp markets to gatekeepers; IT management, developers, etc, but not users. Their pitch is to buy their platform because it gives you control. This includes Microsoft. More than one MS employee told me they don't give a rat's ass about end users because that's not who makes the purchase decision. The general message from this camp is that if you give end users Apple computers they'll do whatever they want with them, and we can't have that.

The other camp markets to end users and uses that to influence the earlier stages of the supply chain. Apple is in this camp. The message is about all the wonderful stuff the end user can do, not about control, or how easy it is for developers and IT admin. That leaves it up to admin to develop the controls and restrictions they need. They don't care about end user experience, and see no point in this approach.

CIOs and CFOs have no doubt about which camp they're in. And some developers have a hard time understanding that what makes life easy for them, doesn't necessarily make life easy for their end users. B oth of these parties are part of the big picture and can't be ignored, even by the seemingly all powerful Apple Corp.

…

That has got to be one of the most spot on, succinct, and well stated summaries of that world I have ever seen. I have met PLENTY of the first type.

Well said sir.