M2 and M2 Pro Minis announced, also M2 Pro and M2 Max MBP

[mikehalloran]

Just got a promotional email from OWC and they had a link to a comparison between the Mac Studio models and the M2 Minis.

https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/84772-m ... ternative/

I skimmed it. Didn't really seem to be very substantial at first glance but this quote jumped off the screen at me:

As we said above, he M2 Pro features up to a 12-core CPU and 200GB/s of memory bandwidth. The M1 Max Mac Studio CPU only has 10 cores with the same 200GB/s of memory bandwidth. Both the M1 Max and M2 Pro support up to 32GB of RAM.

Umm... sure... but tell that to my M1 Max Mac Studio that has 64GB of RAM.

Yep, saw that. I should think that a good workout on both machines with say, DaVinci Resolve should tell me what I want to know… and then I still may spend the extra $1,500 on the Studio. Curious as to what the M2 ?Pro really brings to the table. I use Premiere but Resolve is what everyone is looking to see. If the scores are roughly equal, then I’ll go with the M2 Pro 32.

[mothra]

One of the best days of my life was when I switched from my PC to a Mac SE way, way back when. My stepdad had a PC. When the calls came I could say "Gee... I'm sorry. I don't know. I'm on a Mac." . I still remember that to format a 1.2MB 5 1/4" floppy disk, the DOS command was format a: /4

Man I wish that worked for me! I've gotten paid to support Windows in some way or another for 20+ years now. Last time I owned a Windows machine, it was running Windows 2000.

I think my 2020 i7 Mini might end up becoming a Win 10/11 machine though, that M2 Pro Mini is looking like an awesome upgrade to the new architecture as long as all my crap works still..

[mhschmieder]

My intern broke the tether today and switched from his M1 MacBook Pro to a Windows laptop. It will be interesting to watch his experience, but he doesn't do music production, so his heavy-duty stress-testing will be via games, which I don't do (too much time in front of a backlit screen as it is).

When these got announced, I resisted the temptation to read the announcement or details, as I want to first see how the person who is having the most similar problems to mine, albeit on M1 and the latest macOS vs. Monterey on Intel, adapts to the Windows world for personal stuff.

I have long preferred Windows for software development. Although years ago I was mostly Linux-based.

I did find it surprising that the M2 is being introduced on the regular Mini vs. the Stack or whatever it's called.

[James Steele]

Just saw this interesting video... might be useful info to some:



Seems like the base model M2 Mini ships with a rather anemic internal SSD which is rather slow and hurts performance significantly. Best go 512GB minimum to get decent read/write speeds. Still glad I went with the M1 Max Mac Studio.

[mikehalloran]

Just got a promotional email from OWC and they had a link to a comparison between the Mac Studio models and the M2 Minis.

https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/84772-m ... ternative/

I skimmed it. Didn't really seem to be very substantial at first glance but this quote jumped off the screen at me:

As we said above, he M2 Pro features up to a 12-core CPU and 200GB/s of memory bandwidth. The M1 Max Mac Studio CPU only has 10 cores with the same 200GB/s of memory bandwidth. Both the M1 Max and M2 Pro support up to 32GB of RAM.

Umm... sure... but tell that to my M1 Max Mac Studio that has 64GB of RAM.

Right now, it’s nothing but armchair experts reading spec sheets and guessing. Many of them don’t read very well.

This is why I want to see a DaVinci Resolve or FCPx comparison among the M1 Max 64 and the M2 Pro 32 Mini (comparisons between the Max and Ultra are on the Studio pages). I don’t use Resolve but, between its RAM, CPU and GPU demands, if the M2 Pro really brings that much to the table, this should let us know. For me, the difference between a fully loaded Mini, the M1 Max 64 Studio (+ $700) and the M1 Ultra 64 Studio (+ $1,500).

My guess is that the Studio will perform better and, if so, I will buy one. That the Mini announcements compared the M2 Pro to just about everything except the MP 7.1 and the Studios has probably told us everything we need to know already. If the M2 Pro Mini could not handle three 5K monitors and was not available with 8TB storage, it would not be under consideration.

There’s no doubt that the M2 Pro 32 can handle everything I do in DP but I’ve taken on more AV work lately and I get impatient waiting for video to render. Just sayin…

[James Steele]

I think this guy actually bought some M2 minis and did some tests. It was more than reading spec sheets. How much more one could debate I guess.

[mikehalloran]

I think this guy actually bought some M2 minis and did some tests. …

No she didn't and that is my point.

As we said above, he M2 Pro features up to a 12-core CPU and 200GB/s of memory bandwidth. The M1 Max Mac Studio CPU only has 10 cores though it does support double the memory bandwidth at 400GB/s. Another M1 Max advantage is that it supports up to 64GB of RAM while the M2 Pro on the Mac mini supports up to 32GB of RAM.
…
On the graphics side, Mac mini can be configured with up to a 19-core GPU, while the Mac Studio with M1 Max can be configured with up to a 32-core GPU.

Not one sentence in that article to tell us if that means anything. Her comparisons only parrot what Apple has already told us vis-a-vis the M1 Mini. Ok, the M2 Pro is faster and more efficient — but how does that stack up against the M1 Max in real world performance?

Hopefully, someone, somewhere will run the tests that let us know. If not, it will be the M1 Max or Ultra. I plan on keeping this for a very long time and will spend the extra money if I think it's a better investment.

[James Steele]

Did I put the link to the correct video? It was a HE in the video... not a she. I was referring to the YouTube video link I posted... not the earlier article.

[James Steele]

I think the confusion lies in that I assumed you were replying to my most recent post... not the older one.

[cuttime]

FMI: https://www.macworld.com/article/148318 ... -mini.html

[James Steele]

FMI: https://www.macworld.com/article/148318 ... -mini.html

Thanks for the link. Seems to be nail down the primary issue that was mentioned in the YouTube video I posted, which is that if fast disc access is important to you than you want to perhaps bump up to the 512GB internal storage option. I guess this would be especially true if you have the minimum RAM and there's any memory swapping that has to go on. The minimal spec'd machine may be fine for people who are planning to browse the web, run Office, send emails, etc. but seems like the M2 mini might not be up to stuff for DAW use unless you spend a lot on options and at that point, it may be best to consider a Mac Studio... especially since I imagine the refurbs are probably more plentiful now.

[Michael Canavan]

FMI: https://www.macworld.com/article/148318 ... -mini.html

Thanks for the link. Seems to be nail down the primary issue that was mentioned in the YouTube video I posted, which is that if fast disc access is important to you than you want to perhaps bump up to the 512GB internal storage option. I guess this would be especially true if you have the minimum RAM and there's any memory swapping that has to go on. The minimal spec'd machine may be fine for people who are planning to browse the web, run Office, send emails, etc. but seems like the M2 mini might not be up to stuff for DAW use unless you spend a lot on options and at that point, it may be best to consider a Mac Studio... especially since I imagine the refurbs are probably more plentiful now.

A couple things I've learned researching all this. You really do not want to get less than a 512 anyway, because the larger the drive the more writes to the drive are distributed, and your ssd lasts longer. 1TB really is a minimum to me.

Secondly, the M2 Mini is outpacing everything but the high end Studio.
https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks/

Unless you need all the power in the world and more than 32GB RAM, the Mini is a fantastic choice. They do not have benchmarks for the 16" M2 Macbook Pros but I would bet they at least match the Mini with the same configuration.

That's my goal, to figure out a way to justify the M2 Macbook Pro, which will be pretty hard, even this M1 Air is fine for 90% of what I do, and VEP into the old Mac Pro gives me 96GB worth of sample libraries if I need them. The big thing would be running everything off the Macbook without the need for a server etc. but it's about 6k for a maxed out M2 MBP.

[James Steele]

A couple things I've learned researching all this. You really do not want to get less than a 512 anyway, because the larger the drive the more writes to the drive are distributed, and your ssd lasts longer. 1TB really is a minimum to me.

Agreed. Seems like the memory swapping would be shortening the life of the drive. Some folks might figure they'd get the minimum and use externals, but looks like avoiding the 256GB configuration is key. I have the 2TB SSD in my Mac Studio.

Secondly, the M2 Mini is outpacing everything but the high end Studio.
https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks/

Unless you need all the power in the world and more than 32GB RAM, the Mini is a fantastic choice. They do not have benchmarks for the 16" M2 Macbook Pros but I would bet they at least match the Mini with the same configuration.

That's good info. Be interesting what they price out at when you've spec'd them out with what would be considered optimum for DAW use. I have a friend that I may recommend this too, but definitely need to warn him about getting enough internal storage. I have 64GB in my M1 Max Mac Studio, and it's possible I didn't really need that much, but what's done is done. I don't think I'll use the built in SD card reader much. Having more ports is nice, although the front ones on the M1 Max are not Thunderbolt.

That's my goal, to figure out a way to justify the M2 Macbook Pro, which will be pretty hard, even this M1 Air is fine for 90% of what I do, and VEP into the old Mac Pro gives me 96GB worth of sample libraries if I need them. The big thing would be running everything off the Macbook without the need for a server etc. but it's about 6k for a maxed out M2 MBP.

Yeah... I haven't gotten too much into VEP. I have it and I've only experimented with running the server on the *same* Mac, which I've actually heard is more efficient than running VIs *inside* of DP, but since I mostly deal with hard rock/pop songs, don't think that will be a problem. Plus, only one Ethernet connection on my Mac Studio and which is going to a switch that is connected to my Euphonix MC Control and MC Mix, so not certain just how I'd connect up an external VEP server? I guess just connect it to the same switch I suppose?

Interesting. Well I guess that's always the risk we take when we buy into a computer. Something better may be around the corner. That said, I'm still tremendously pleased with the M1 Max Mac Studio. The Ultra just plain wasn't in my budget, but this still kicks the crap out of my previous MacPro5,1.

[bayswater]

It dampens the enthusiasm. The increase in power would be nice to have, but I don't really need it. How many here are really experiencing CPU capacity issues?

A 24G RAM /. 512G SSD M2 Mini would cost nearly twice what I paid for the similarly configured i7 Mini, although I was able to buy the RAM from a third party, avoiding some high Apple prices.

The cost of updating to the M2 would also have to consider all the things I have that won't run on Ventura and might need a paid update.

[Michael Canavan]

It dampens the enthusiasm. The increase in power would be nice to have, but I don't really need it. How many here are really experiencing CPU capacity issues?

There will always be that plug in. In this case analog Lab and Falcon.
viewtopic.php?t=72928

Speccing out a Mini that sits near the top of the list, beating out everything but the 24-28 core Mac Pros and Ultra 20 Studio. 12 core, 32GB, 1TB, with 10GB ethernet is $2399. You could easily use this for years, if you need more RAM for libraries etc, a server isn't that big of a deal, but it will be a decade maybe before you think about CPU. It's a pretty great machine, kind of too bad they put out the laptop at a thousand dollars more. (better GPU, but same core chip)