828x Calibrating Problems

[davenpom]

Hello. I have a MOTU 828x from 2014 and I have been living with a problem that I need to get resolved. I have been trying to get my system calibrated to a suitable listening level and have followed very specific directions from an article in Sound On Sound Magazine to calibrate your studio monitors.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... ing-levels

I went through all of that and got my external mixer and DAW (Cubase) at a specific level for my room. When. playback audio from Cubase or any standalone virtual instruments, the volume level seems fine.

However, when I playback any audio from YouTube, iTunes or any mastered audio in QuickTime or try importing mastered audio into a Cubase session, the volume is so loud, I have to turn it down or damage my ears and speakers.

In MOTU Audio Setup, I have the Main Out L - Main Out R selected as the Default Stereo Out so all system audio is passing trough to the 828x. For the Main Out Assign, I also had the Main out 1-2 selected and I thought that perhaps the two were being combined so I grabbed another set of cables and connected the Analog Out 1&2 to my monitor controller instead and routed the Default Stereo Out to that pair instead, YouTube videos were still rising my head off if the volume slider on the player was up too high.

How have any of you 828x owners calibrated your studio monitors so that audio from the internet, or mastered audio isn't too loud?

[mikehalloran]

System/Core Audio is normally set separately. I don't know Cubase but that's how it is in Digital Performer. In DP 11, there is now an option to follow System Audio settings (I leave it unchecked).

I'm guessing that you have put the cart before the horse as it were. Start with Apple's Audio MIDI Setup.app in your Utilities folder. Next go to System Preferences/Sound. When you have those levels right, go to Cubase and get that right. This should make setting up the 828x easy.

[davenpom]

Start with Apple's Audio MIDI Setup.app in your Utilities folder. Next go to System Preferences/Sound. When you have those levels right, go to Cubase and get that right. This should make setting up the 828x easy.

I went to the Audio MIDI Setup and looked at the Audio Devices. I could see my 828x on the left. But when I make adjustments to the Master Out, it also adjusts the Output level in the System Preferences too.

[davenpom]

I went ahead and gave it a shot and tried lowering the volume in Audio MIDI Setup so that audio from YouTube and iTunes wouldn't blast me out of the seat without having to remember to grab the volume slider on the player first. By default, all these volume sliders (YouTube, Vimeo, Spotify, etc.) are all the way up. I adjusted the System Volume that is going to my MOTU 828x so I don't have to think about those sliders and started the calibration process with pink noise. The goal was to set the volume on my monitors so that I could get an SPL reading of around 73 dBFS. However, with the system volume down so low, I can't achieve that SPL level even when the knobs of my speakers are all the way up. I refuse to have my monitors at full blast, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to again abandon this until I can get support direct from MOTU tech because I seem to be the most problematic person when it comes to this.

[mothra]

Well you've calibrated your MOTU so with the volume pot all the way up, it's hitting 73db. That means that volume setting is ALWAYS that loud. You don't get a 'cut 20db off when I turn off Cubase' option, the whole point is a single reference volume across the whole system and you use the MOTU to turn things down when its too loud, not the system volume (which has no effect on the MOTU anyways). Its about consistency. You either need to turn it down, or turn it off and go back to whatever speakers are connected to your Mac and use the system volume control then.

To start off, make sure you're doing your calibration right to begin with. That SoS article is terrible heh. Go with an actual monitor maker's instructions instead.
https://abluesky.com/support/blue-sky-c ... est-files/

[davenpom]

I get what you're saying that the goal is to get a single reference volume across the whole system. I wasn't expecting to get a 20dB cut simply by closing my Cubase session, so perhaps there's some misunderstanding about what I am trying to accomplish.

I've watched a number of YouTube videos showing how to use reference tracks in your DAW to A/B your mix against, and in every one of them, the mastered reference track that was inserted into their DAW sessions didn't seem to have the tremendous volume increase compared to their unmastered tracks, even though the reference tracks didn't have their volume levels adjusted so they wouldn't be so loud. When I tried to follow along with their instructions, the mastered track I inserted into my DAW comes out screaming loud.

Same thing happens when I play any videos on YouTube or Apple Music, Spotify or whatever. I either have to turn down the volume sliders on any of those players or drop the output level of the MOTU.

Also, thanks, but I did see the instructions from Blue Sky. I'm OK with turning down the knob on the MOTU since it's what I've been doing for years now anyway, but everything I've seen so far concerning calibration and reference tracks implies I shouldn't have to do that if it's done right to begin with.

[mothra]

Well, technically you don't HAVE to turn the volume down on the MOTU itself, but you have to remember, you just calibrated that volume level all the way up to hit 73db when you get a full -18/-20dbFS signal to it. In that case, if the media you are watching is at the same level, it's going to blow your head off just like the DAW at full blast. You put on a video that someone mastered at a lower level, you're going to get a lower output. Your only option other than turning down the MOTU is to leave it at its reference point and use the volume slider in the YouTube player, Quicktime, Apple Music, etc. The MOTU is the system's reference point and final say in the matter, so everything else needs to adjust itself around that if that makes any sense. It's basically taking over and replacing the Mac's normal system volume. For me, I hardly ever touch that normally as it is. I leave it two clicks down from full blast (about -3db I think?), and just use the sliders in Music, Safari, whatever to control the media volume. Same thing when using your interface as the system output, you just have it set much louder than the crappy built in audio because its going through monitors instead of desktop speakers or whatever you're using.

I use a Mackie Big Knob here and A/B between my MOTU/DAW setup and my 24 channel console setup, and never touch the MOTU's volume knob. 828x is set to hit 75db at full blast, which is pretty damn loud in a bedroom setting (Katz's reference 83db is WAY too loud for nearfield mixing IMO). My system only gets turned up that loud if I want to piss off the neighbors or my girlfriend and it's way too loud to sit comfortably in front of for hours on end. The Big Knob is usually about half way up most of the time, and that's pretty much perfect for sitting in a 10x15 room for a few hours at a time. Nowadays I spend most of my time making jungle/drum and bass tunes and there is plenty sub, mids, everything at that level.

[davenpom]

Yup. I had come to the conclusion that the the MOTU takes over the system control once its selected as the device the system will use for I/O in the System Preferences. While it's obviously possible to adjust the levels of audio coming into the MOTU's physical inputs with CueMix FX, there's nothing on board to control levels from the OS.

I had recently started taking beginners mixing lessons online (as well as online piano lessons), and there's lots of video content to watch and learn from and audio comes from different streaming services. So since I had been living with this for a while, I wanted to really try and deal with this so I wouldn't have to keep remembering to adjust this and that every time I need to complete a lesson. My mixing instructor had been working with me for several days to troubleshoot this and ultimately recommended a piece of software that helped me get some control of all the audio sources so I can set them and move on. Its called Soundsource by Rogue Amoeba. I tried a demo and decided to buy it. Now I can set the levels from Safari, Chrome, Apple Music, Spotify, whatever, independently and leave the MOTU where it is. Pretty slick. So for me, I can consider this problem solved. Finally.