MOTU M6

[bayswater]

We’ll need a thread so here it is. So far, all I’ve seen is a direct copy of what MOTU wrote in their release. It looks like the M4 with extra channels, and that’s it. Maybe we’ll see more in reviews. Would be nice if the input sensitivity is altered on the line inputs.

[stubbsonic]

One significant difference is that it has a dedicated power input, which the M2 and M4 lack.

This RAISES the question, how will it work with an iOS device? Will it no longer require a powered hub if power is provided via its power input?

I've not yet tried the M4 with my new M1 MBP. With my 2012 MBP, it would disappear with sleep, requiring me to turn the M4 off and back on again. BTW, Sleep seems to be Apple's most reliable feature-- it has continued to NOT work properly across every version of OS X.

[bayswater]

Yes I saw the power supply and wondered if that might lead to more gain on the line level inputs.

On sleep, I’ve not had the problem. But how does that play into an assessment of the M6 ?

[mikehalloran]

Would be nice if the input sensitivity is altered on the line inputs

It isn’t, unfortunately.

Yes I saw the power supply and wondered if that might lead to more gain on the line level inputs

I doubt it. See below:

This RAISES the question, how will it work with an iOS device? Will it no longer require a powered hub if power is provided via its power input?

I’d bet much better. MOTU does state that connecting a M6 over a USB-A requires external power. Although this implies that bus power over USB-C is a given, USB-C is a port, not a standard so it’s going to depend on the available bus power and cable. Into a USB-C iPad through a cable rated USB 3 or higher should work but what’s the battery drain? I’d order up the 15V power supply if not included.

Going by specs, my M•Audio AIR 192|14 appears to be using the same Cirrus Logic chip set as the M6. Besides the $70 price difference, here’s how the two stack up:

M6 is bus or external power. AIR is external only.

The channel and I/O count is nearly the same (4 Mic/Instrument CombiJacks, 2 Line I/Os, 2 ‘phones) except that the AIR also has a pair of DI inputs. In both cases, Odds are L over USB while Evens are R. There is no mixer in either unit. Line In sensitivity is the same on my M4 as my AIR.

Both have 5-pin MIDI but the Air uses pigtails while the M6 jacks are built-in.

Input monitoring is the same on both with 2 switchable modes. The M6 meters have more segments and are nicer.

The AIR has a desktop form with controls mounted on top. The look is a little cheesy compared to the M6 where the controls are front mounted.

Both are Core Audio compliant and 4 In over USB but the M6 also has MOTU drivers to lower the latency (barely) and add Loopback. The AIR uses USB 3/4 for Loopback and there are no Mac drivers.

The only unknown to me is the M6’s Input Trim curve on but I can guess based on the M2/M4 which are much smoother than the AIR where the mic pres don’t wake up before I hit 8 (condensers) or 8.75 (dynamics). Although the AIR doesn’t really need a CloudLifter with my SM7B working close, I prefer the additional headroom and the ability to tweak input impedance with a CL-Z is a must with my ribbons. I’ve never tried my SM7B with an M2 or M4 (though I have both) but M•Audio has always had a reputation for having enough gain to handle that or an RE20. In another thread, I’ve mentioned that I just ordered a couple of Triton inline boosters to add more headroom with my 48V condensors.

MOTU could have added those extra two DI channels but I’m guessing that going with built-in 5-pin MIDI jacks is a better use of the space. Perhaps there’s an M8 in the works.


Bottom line for me: I like the AIR’s top mounted controls and having my Yamaha permanently hooked up to the DIs on Inputs 5/6. My Radial Active stereo DI works the same on the Line Ins of my M4 as my AIR. Otherwise, since I never use all 8 inputs simultaneously in my AIR, I could be just as happy with the M6.

[stubbsonic]

Yes I saw the power supply and wondered if that might lead to more gain on the line level inputs.

On sleep, I’ve not had the problem. But how does that play into an assessment of the M6 ?

If the core functionality & firmware is similar to the M4, then perhaps the sleep issued could carry over to the M6. OTOH, if the sleep issue is related to continuity of bus power, then having the external power source might remedy the issue. I have no idea.

[mikehalloran]

On sleep, I’ve not had the problem. But how does that play into an assessment of the M6 ?

Good question.

My experience is that it's the USB/FW sleep issue that's been around since the G5. If I plug in directly, there's no issue—USB-A or USB-C makes no difference. Going through a hub, devices might not wake from sleep—bus or external power doesn't matter. This affects USB keyboards, interfaces and external drives (HDD, SATA III SSD, CD/DVD) and backing up my iPad/iPhone/iPod 7 via Lightning to USB. Some hubs are worse than others but I've never found the one that is immune.

I read all the time that Apple has solved this finally with … (doesn't matter). Nah…

eSATA, Thunderbolt, WiFi and Ethernet do not have this issue. I haven't had eSATA since my 2010 iMac but all of my Time Machine drives for all of the Macs in this house (currently 5) are connected via Ethernet (desktop) or WiFi (laptop) for this exact reason—and have been for over 20 years. My external SSDs sit in a (discontinued) TB2 Dock and are connected via an Apple TB2—TB3 adapter. The dock has two TB2 ports so my 828mkII FW connects to one via the Apple TB–FW adapter.

[bayswater]

Some hubs are worse than others but I've never found the one that is immune.

As mentioned, I’ve never had the problem with any device on G4, G5, iMac i7 or the current Mini. I’ve been using USB hubs made locally, and only sold in a local drug store. I knew some of the people involved and they claimed other hubs don’t power all the ports while theirs does. It seems like an overly simple explanation but there it is.

The one problem I have had, is when I plug in extra bus powered USB spinners, If all 10 hub ports are being used, the Waves USB licence key can’t be detected. It’s on a second unpowered 4 port hub, along with 3 other licence keys, and plugged into the powered hub. So maybe the problem is one of the adequacy of the power supply rather than an Apple issue?

[stubbsonic]

I've had the sleep issue when the M4 was plugged directly into the 2012 MBP on either side. However, it didn't always fail though, just usually. Plugging into a hub, it failed more reliably. Fortunately, I didn't need to use the M4, since I was able to repair my FF800. That is another story (mentioned elsewhere).

[Michael Canavan]

I've not yet tried the M4 with my new M1 MBP. With my 2012 MBP, it would disappear with sleep, requiring me to turn the M4 off and back on again. BTW, Sleep seems to be Apple's most reliable feature-- it has continued to NOT work properly across every version of OS X.

Yep. I have sleep disabled, because any peripheral including audio interfaces can be hosed by it, especially external drives in enclosures, whether powered or not. I've had only one LCD screen go bad on me, but I've had plenty of external drives go bad, so I'll sacrifice battery life and LCD life for drive life.

[mikehalloran]

Some hubs are worse than others but I've never found the one that is immune.

As mentioned, I’ve never had the problem with any device on G4, G5, iMac i7 or the current Mini. I’ve been using USB hubs made locally, and only sold in a local drug store. I knew some of the people involved and they claimed other hubs don’t power all the ports while theirs does. It seems like an overly simple explanation but there it is.

The one problem I have had, is when I plug in extra bus powered USB spinners, If all 10 hub ports are being used, the Waves USB licence key can’t be detected. It’s on a second unpowered 4 port hub, along with 3 other licence keys, and plugged into the powered hub. So maybe the problem is one of the adequacy of the power supply rather than an Apple issue?

You always bring up that you don’t have that problem which mystifies me. I’d love to get one of those hubs and see what it does for me.

I got my G5 in 2002 and have been fighting this for 20 years. The only bus powered devices I have used for the last 20 years are iLok & eLicenser dongles and bus powered CD/DVD drives plus an M2 and M4, of course but neither of which get much use. Interestingly, when other devices plugged into a hub disappear from view, my iLoks can still be read. To revive any requires unplugging and replugging, even USB flash drives and, when that doesn’t work, doing the same with the hub—a bit of a PIA given my handicap.

I’m certain that bus power has nothing to do with it. Neither my M•Audio AIR or P125 piano have ever given me grief and have been plugged in direct for nearly two years. Only my M2/4 are bus powered; the Mackies are externally powered as is my MTP AV USB. I make sure to go direct—solid as a rock, same with my external monitors. If I plug any of them into my Anker hub, they exhibit the same problem. I bought and returned many USB2, 3 and USB-C hubs and went with the Anker USB 3 after seeing it for sale from Apple and it’s better than any other I’ve used.

The iMac Pro has 4 USB-C ports with two TB3 buses plus 4 USB-A ports that support USB2/3. One would think that’s enough but no...

I expect to go through all this again when I get my Studio. At that time, I will explore TB 4/3/USB 3.2 + USB-A 2/3… and I’ll pay attention to Amazon 30 day return windows more carefully. I’m tired of this.

[Michael Canavan]

Just to add to the craziness of it all, buss powered devices also exhibit vastly different behavior in terms of having issues with USB hubs and sleep. I've got and old TB2 and the newer TB4 OWC docks plugged into the Air here, into them I have a Pluggable USB3 hub with Display Link HDMI support, ands two 7 port USB 3 hubs plugged in. Besides my USB controllers and peripherals I have 4 SSDs in bus powered enclosures connected. The 2.5" SSDs in USB3 enclosures exhibit no bad behavior. The two M.2 SSDs in USB C enclosures cannot be hooked up directly to the powered OWC TB4 dock otherwise they suck all the power and do not mount. So one is plugged into the powered USB3 hub.

Basically sleep is broken with more complext setups, and the best bet is to not have bus powered USB SSD enclosures, but of course besides multi drive enclosures, that's not that easy to find. The big disappointment for me is that the OWC TB4 dock does not draw enough power to run two M.2 SSDs without issue, this seems kind of ridiculous.

[bayswater]

You always bring up that you don’t have that problem which mystifies me. I’d love to get one of those hubs and see what it does for me.
I’m certain that bus power has nothing to do with it.

If not that, then what else? Could it be the presence of some specific peripherals that some have and others don’t?

[stubbsonic]

You always bring up that you don’t have that problem which mystifies me. I’d love to get one of those hubs and see what it does for me.
I’m certain that bus power has nothing to do with it.

If not that, then what else? Could it be the presence of some specific peripherals that some have and others don’t?

I was thinking about that, or perhaps some software installations?

[mikehalloran]

You always bring up that you don’t have that problem which mystifies me. I’d love to get one of those hubs and see what it does for me.
I’m certain that bus power has nothing to do with it.

If not that, then what else? Could it be the presence of some specific peripherals that some have and others don’t?

After 20 years and I don’t know how many different peripherals? I don’t think so. My main host computers have been a G5, 2010 and 2011 iMacs with the eSATA mod (2010 and 2011 had unused busses that OWC could extend), 14 Core iMac Pro and my current 18 Core iMP.

Different hubs have had an effect: D-Link was the worst; Anker the best but I’ve never owned one that was immune.

I also tried various FireWire hubs — connecting my 828mkII to any collapsed the FW ports in my G5 and 2010 (resetting the PRAM/NVRAM brought them back to life). I gave up on FW peripherals except for the 828 — as long as there was no hub or daisy-chain, it worked perfectly and still does through the Apple adapters into TB3. Neither Apple nor MOTU could figure out what was happening so I gave up on that.

Again, eSTA, TB and Ethernet have never given me grief in this regard. My WD MyCloud drive bays and Apple Time Capsules are linked via Ethernet to my WiFi hub so Time Machine is rock solid no matter how I access it.

[mrstorm]

Motu M6 - Storage requirements 500 GB ?

I have a small Macbook Air M1 from 2021 with 8GB and 256 GB ram, and I'm researching the Motu M6 to use with the build in Garageband. I currently have no working interface, but I decided for the M6.
To my deep concern I read somewhere, that Motu M6 require 500 GB storage, and I wonder if I can use my Macbook Air at all for the M6.
I don’t plan to use a lot of plugins or libraries, but only some analogue instruments and some effects in Garageband, and I do have an external harddisk.
will it work ?
I’m a beginner concerning recording and using interfaces, and I don’t know much about technical terms and requirements for an interface, but of course I hope to make things work with the equipment I’ve got & my slowly expanding knowledge.
Thanks in advance to anyone, who can help me out on this ?