CLAP: promising new plugin platform

[stubbsonic]

There's a new plugin format on the block. Our current plugin formats have some limitations we live with. The KVR thread and video linked below describes some of the advantages, and why it would be a very good thing to see this as the up and coming plugin format. BTW, CLAP is short for "Clever Audio Plugin"

Here's a description:

"CLAP is a platform-agnostic audio plugin interface that strives to be clear and flexible. It is a feature of CLAP that a valid plugin can implement a minimal subset of the API, as this example does. The only CLAP extensions supported by this example are the GUI, params, and timer extensions. CLAP supports many more extensions, like events, parameter automation, multiple audio ports, MIDI, etc. This is a bare-metal example of interacting directly with the API, not a framework.
CLAP does not specify or prefer any particular UI implementation. It's valid to use native Windows/Mac/X11/etc controls directly, or draw bitmaps to the screen, or use a full-featured GUI framework, or whatever works."

This thread gives a plain-language description and benefits...

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=574861

The GitHub page may be of interest to those with some developer knowledge:
https://github.com/schwaaa/clap-imgui

In the vid linked below, you can see a recent Surge XT synth build fully functioning in the CLAP format.

https://youtu.be/HE-jerTn04w

[bayswater]

I guess the name is tongue in cheek. The info on this makes it look like something that might make life easier for plugin developers and perhaps host developers, but not so much end users. Or would this be of more interest to those who do not use DAWs as “modern tape recorders” and plugins as effect racks?

[stubbsonic]

I guess the name is tongue in cheek. The info on this makes it look like something that might make life easier for plugin developers and perhaps host developers, but not so much end users. Or would this be of more interest to those who do not use DAWs as “modern tape recorders” and plugins as effect racks?

I got the impression that once a DAW implements it, it would be no different (in terms of installation) than other formats. And there are significant upsides for the end user-- speed, power, connectivity, efficiency.

[Michael Canavan]

I guess the name is tongue in cheek. The info on this makes it look like something that might make life easier for plugin developers and perhaps host developers, but not so much end users. Or would this be of more interest to those who do not use DAWs as “modern tape recorders” and plugins as effect racks?

The biggest upside is total compatibility. If/when DP uses CLAP, it will be universally compatible across PC and Mac, have all the features of AU and VST3, but without the limitations and issues. Essentially AU is made by Apple and doesn't really support Windows, or any other DAW besides Logics MIDI plug in implementation. VST3 is a sh*t show, this is why it's taken 15 years to be forced down developers throats, and you can see how messy the implementation of it can be by using it in DP, definitely the most likely format to crash DP. Stienberg a direct competitor to MOTU make the VST standard, and they have never been great about hosting documentation.

CLAP being introduced by plug in developers with the help of DAW manufacturers is generated by the people who will use a universal format completely, not some halfway thing like we've always had to deal with. IMO in the end it's going to mean less issues for us, but who know if/when it gets the serious traction it will need to take off?

[stubbsonic]

IMO in the end it's going to mean less issues for us, but who knows if/when it gets the serious traction it will need to take off?

I guess we're doing our part to try to make a lil' buzz.

[bayswater]

CLAP being introduced by plug in developers with the help of DAW manufacturers is generated by the people who will use a universal format completely, not some halfway thing like we've always had to deal with. IMO in the end it's going to mean less issues for us, but who know if/when it gets the serious traction it will need to take off?

Best of luck to the project, but still, it seems to address the problems of developers. I suppose the exception might something like VST3 problems in DP. Maybe further user advantages for those who want to make more use of iOS.

Not sure what you meant about AU only working in DP and Logic. It works in any Mac app I've used.

[HCMarkus]

A round of applause for CLAP.

I'll show myself out.

[Michael Canavan]

CLAP being introduced by plug in developers with the help of DAW manufacturers is generated by the people who will use a universal format completely, not some halfway thing like we've always had to deal with. IMO in the end it's going to mean less issues for us, but who know if/when it gets the serious traction it will need to take off?

Best of luck to the project, but still, it seems to address the problems of developers. I suppose the exception might something like VST3 problems in DP. Maybe further user advantages for those who want to make more use of iOS.

Not sure what you meant about AU only working in DP and Logic. It works in any Mac app I've used.

As someone who went mostly in the box in around 2001, it's a lot bigger than that if it's pulled off right. Apple introduced AU as a way to deal with the fact that VSTs were unstable outside of Cubase, which wasn't that stable either, in OS 9, and they wanted a relatively "bullet proof" solution. What ended up happening is AU is stable enough, but it's only 'complete' in Logic. MIDI out from AU is only possible in Logic, because it's designed around the way Logic handles routing, which DAWs like Live, Reaper, and DP don't do. [It's also IMO still not as good as the way VST handles MIDI out] With VSTi's like Reason, Reactor etc., any drum sequencer or any of the arpeggiator, chord and sequencer plug ins out there it just works like you would expect. But! VSTs are controlled by Steinberg, who don't give companies like MOTU detailed instructions on how to host VST3, so we have stable AU with limitations because it's controlled by Apple who only really care about Logic, or limitations from Steinberg who don't care about other DAWs, and according to developers, they don't care about them either.

CLAP solves all that, DAW developers will get complete access to, and can even contribute to the development of CLAP, and things like bugs because you're reverse engineering things to get it to work will be nonexistent.The format is designed to be a development tool, meaning the format with the least issues. I don't know about you, but every crash almost I ever get in DP is due to third party plug ins, it's almost never due to DP itself. This will eventually eliminate that.

So the only other step if CLAP becomes the de facto platform for DP is to have plug in sandboxing, but if CLAP delivers, and developers don't make their own bugs without the help of unfriendly plug in formats, then we won't really need it.

[mikehalloran]

A bunch of pretty big “IFs”

Something to deal with if it ever becomes real and implemented. I’ll wait for the movie.

[bayswater]

OK I see what you mean about AU. Hasn’t affected me. DPs MIDI and Audio routing is transparent enough I can figure out things I need to do without this. If CLAP makes that easier, great.

[stubbsonic]

I suppose one hidden benefit would have to do with taking some of the overhead off of plugin developers. If in the long run this makes it easier, cheaper, and requiring fewer dumb workarounds, for developers; that could potentially help us end-users downstream.

Oh, yea, that's another IF, isn't it?

IF they make a movie, will it be better than the book?

[Michael Canavan]

The best example I can give of how the current situation affect us as end users is the Reason Rack plug in.

Reason as you guys well know is a stand alone DAW that started off as mainly a rack of synths, samplers etc. a self contained DAW. Reason on Intel x86 chips publishes as both an effect and an instrument. The instrument version also allows for MIDI out, so Reason has chord devices, advanced arpreggiators, step sequencers, even an AI drum designer like Logic. These all publish as instruments, but not with AU. The caveat is Reason Studios decided to forgo VST2 because Steinberg is pulling the license, and VST3 that publishes MIDI does weird things in DP, it shows up as an Aux insert, you can also instantiate it as an audio effect.... Basically VST3 is sort of broken in DP, but it works.

[stubbsonic]

Thanks for that example.

I'm in the midst of chip transition where I still use my older MBP(s) for some stuff, and am relieved that most of what I need has crossed the threshold into M1-ville. I never install AAX or RTAS if given the choice. I load AU, VST, VST3, as available, but I'm not very clear on the pros/cons of each platform.

A summary of those differences would be pretty on-topic for this thread, I think. We've touched on some of it.