Snapshots and channels on DP 11.x

[ivorysteve]

Hi, all,

Ever since I've installed (each version of) DP 11 (on Mac OS X Big Sur), I have found that creating a snapshot in a project puts all MIDI automation data on Channel 16.

Since I don't use Channel 16 (most tracks use channel 1), the automation data (e.g., volume, pan, expression, etc.) has no effect. So snapshots don't work AT ALL - unless I go into the Event Window and change the Channel property for each track. This did not happen in DP 10 (since I don't believe it kept MIDI channel data in the events). My instruments are AU or VST3.

I've looked in the User Manual for a property setting. I have a MOTU service ticket waiting for response for a few week. I posted on the MOTU Guru FB page. I've tried removing my app properties and starting from scratch. And I've poked around these forums, all without success.

I assume it's a setting or something stupid I'm doing, since I haven't seen a mob with torches storming the MOTU castle here about this.

Anyone have any idea what's going on?

Best,

Steve

[mikelhurwitz]

Hey Steve -
Did you ever find a fix to this?
I'm experiencing the same thing & it's restricting me from upgrading from DP10 to 11.
Thanks!

[mikehalloran]

Well, that doesn't sound right. I recommend searching the User Guide pdf.

https://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/softw ... +Guide.pdf

Command f (MacOS or iOS) or Control f (Windows or Android). I used Snapshot for my search term. Use the arrows to quickly scroll through all the mentions till the right page(s) appear. Snapshot appears 155 times but scrolling through those listings did not find any page that jumped out at me as being the one you need to see. Since I don't use the feature, I'm guessing this will be more use to you.

Let us know what you find.

[bayswater]

I recall DP 11 introduced the ability to have channel info stored in the MIDI data (instead of having DP channelize it on playback) and the ability to have multiple channels in one track or region. Assuming that’s an option, if you have it turned on, perhaps DP is arbitrarily using channel 16 for automation because all events need to have and assigned channel. And perhaps if you turn it off, DP will not store a channel, and will channelize the automation data along with the note data on playback, using whatever you set the MIDI track output to.

[cuttime]

I recall DP 11 introduced the ability to have channel info stored in the MIDI data (instead of having DP channelize it on playback) and the ability to have multiple channels in one track or region. Assuming that’s an option, if you have it turned on, perhaps DP is arbitrarily using channel 16 for automation because all events need to have and assigned channel. And perhaps if you turn it off, DP will not store a channel, and will channelize the automation data along with the note data on playback, using whatever you set the MIDI track output to.

Yes. Any is now a MIDI output destination.

[ivorysteve]

So I just got a reply, finally, from MOTU: " I have been able to reproduce this bug - it has been logged with our engineering team for investigation and resolution." So clearly this site is the place for posting items to make things happen!

I'm just surprised this hasn't been seen more by others - literally, doing my usual all-track-data snapshot at measure 1 for projects had NO effect on playback.

Best,

Steve

P.S. FYI, I did try playing around with the "any" setting on the channel selector on the track, but didn't see any change of behavior.

[bayswater]

Well spotted IvorySteve. Sometimes its difficult to tell whether something is a bug or a “feature”.

[mikehalloran]

Now we know. Thanks for the heads up!

[monty verdi]

Thank for this post IS; saved me heaps of frustration and confusion. (though it took me too long to decide to look for help when i should have!!).
One additional thing that I noticed is that controller 10 (Pan) is always written as zero regardless of the position of the pan knob.

Cheers and further thanks
monty

[James Steele]

So clearly this site is the place for posting items to make things happen!

I'm just surprised this hasn't been seen more by others - literally, doing my usual all-track-data snapshot at measure 1 for projects had NO effect on playback.

It may have been seen, but lately I've begun to think that what happens is that a lot of people who come across bugs (maybe not a serious as that one) decide they'll just use a workaround for a while because surely someone else will report it. I think so many people think this way, or don't want to be bothered that many bugs don't make it onto MOTU's radar.

Case in point: I have an old Euphonix-branded MC Control control surface. I really hadn't delved deeply into its (amazingly deep) features as I got it cheap on Craigslist years ago as a AlphaTrack replacement. Only recently did I start digging deeper into what this unit could do and started experimenting with using it to select a track, choose an insert, open the plug in on that insert and then adjust the plug-in's parameters, ALL from the MC Control. It worked like charm in Pro Tools, but it was very sketchy in DP. I discovered quickly that I could only see the parameters for VIs... effects plug-ins when selected would not report any parameters to the unit. Also plug-in windows did not automatically open/close like in Pro Tools. All of this seems like it would be pretty apparent, but maybe because the number of DP users using Eucon-based control surfaces is small... and those that have even attempted to use the feature to adjust plug-ins is smaller still, this problem seems to have existed for quite some time.

I reached out to MOTU, quite worried that this was something that would perhaps never be fixed because the Artist series of controllers (MC Control, MC Mix) have been discontinued. A tech got back to me and asked me if I might make a quick video showing the problem. So I did something quick and dirty with my iPhone demonstrating how you adjusted plug-in parameters from the surface and showing how effects plug-in parameters did not appear and other issues. I received a reply that they had an MC Control like mine in the office and were able to re-create the issue, and as luck would have it (for me anyway) this problem also manifested itself in Avid control surfaces that are still being sold and thus it was a priority to get fixed. After some dialog back and forth and supplying some more information, I'm happy to report that I received word that they were able to get this resolved and the fix should be in the next update.

All of that is just a long, roundabout way of saying that no matter how obvious a bug might seem to you, it's probably best not to assume someone else will eventually report it. Go ahead and take the time to make the report yourself whenever possible.

[Michael Canavan]

All of that is just a long, roundabout way of saying that no matter how obvious a bug might seem to you, it's probably best not to assume someone else will eventually report it. Go ahead and take the time to make the report yourself whenever possible.

This is super important. I don't know how many times it has to be repeated, but just blabbing on forums about an issue isn't going to get it fixed.

I've had pretty good luck with support. Not all issues are easily replicated, but the ones that are have been fixed for the most part. Reminds me to describe to them as well as I ranted about it here about DPs awkward Track selections changing Mixer Track Selector settings if it's docked in the Consolidated Window.

[ivorysteve]

All of that is just a long, roundabout way of saying that no matter how obvious a bug might seem to you, it's probably best not to assume someone else will eventually report it. Go ahead and take the time to make the report yourself whenever possible.

Wow, James, that IS a quite an effort on your part! Yea, reproducing a problem definitely can take quite a bit time out of your normal workflow. There are so many variables you want to control to make sure they can see what you're seeing.

I am glad, though, that MOTU is monitoring this forum so closely. I've certainly seen MANY companies who don't have ANY public forum like this, and their customer service is a black hole. So, kudos that they're listening at all!

Steve

[ivorysteve]

Thank for this post IS; saved me heaps of frustration and confusion. (though it took me too long to decide to look for help when i should have!!).
One additional thing that I noticed is that controller 10 (Pan) is always written as zero regardless of the position of the pan knob.

Cheers and further thanks
monty

YES! I thought I had mentioned that - thanks! That is actually what made me notice this in the first place: "Why the heck are all my channels slammed over to the left after I did this snapshot?? What the heck?!"

[ivorysteve]

I recall DP 11 introduced the ability to have channel info stored in the MIDI data (instead of having DP channelize it on playback) and the ability to have multiple channels in one track or region. Assuming that’s an option, if you have it turned on, perhaps DP is arbitrarily using channel 16 for automation because all events need to have and assigned channel. And perhaps if you turn it off, DP will not store a channel, and will channelize the automation data along with the note data on playback, using whatever you set the MIDI track output to.

You are correct that the feature is new in DP 11. If it's a configurable option, I have NOT found a way to turn it off. You can suppress seeing it in the View Filter, but the channel data is still part of the MIDI event, as far as I can tell. If there IS a way to turn it off completely, I'm all ears!

[bayswater]

Maybe you don’t need to turn it off if you have the output for the MIDI track set to the channel you want it to go to instead of “any”.
I’d guess DP would then work like it always has and just ignore the channel info in the Note event.

Bear in mind that I have no idea what I’m talking about — I don’t have DP 11.