DP 10 and VST examination

[JeffatMOTUN]

Well, I have discovered some strange behavior as applies to Windows 10 and DP 10 64 bit and how it examines VSTs. When I uninstall and reinstall, DP 10 automatically examines all the VSTs contained in "C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins" with no path specified and they pass and function. However, adding a path to the Audio Plugins preferences dialog for VSTs that are not present in that default folder causes DP 10 to examine those new VSTs and they seem to 100% fail. If I then uninstall, copy ALL VSTs to "C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins", and reinstall, 90% then pass and function and even the one that fails actually functions. Also, opening a previous project may cause DP to lose it's default folder VSTs and when that path is manually added to the Audio Plugins dialog they all fail when they were just functioning. Can anyone explain how to get DP 10 to properly recognize the basic VSTs you can see in my forum signature and stay that way? Thanks

[JeffatMOTUN]

Just to add more info. I reinstalled, made several adjustments and closed the program, even rebooted the computer several times, and all worked perfectly. After playing and saving one project with several virtual instruments and effects I closed DP and when I reopened that project approx. an hour later those virtual instruments were gone from the configuration along with the one folder listed. I re-selected the folder but all of the same VI that worked recently failed upon examination. Any ideas what is happening here and how to stop it? Thanks again

[iTrensharo]

I am not sure what MOTU is doing with the VST SUpport, but it's the worst I have ever experienced in an Audio/Video application.

Using DP 11 on Windows 11, I get different fails on my Laptop than I do on my desktop. I tried cleaning out the VST cache and then the fails are different than the first time I scanned the plug-ins.

The VST Validator is not internally consistent, so there is no way for a user to troubleshoot any issues that arise from it. I t's also 100% undocumented. It's a black box. You can't actually file a bug report to a plug-in manufacturer, because the validator gives you 0 useful information. As a result, you're at the mercy of MOTU to fix their buggy VST support, instead. Contacting support is fruitless. I don't think any of them actually use a Windows Machine on the regular, and I don't think they actually know how to fix these issues. They pretend it works fine.

Additionally, due to its inconsistency, even if they did test the plug-in on a Windows machine, it may work for them and they will simply say WorksForMe™ and close the case. It can work today and stop working tomorrow if you reexamine the plugin. If either DP or the plug-in is updated, the plugin can simply stop working. If DP isn't updated, but you clear the plug-in cache, it can fail the next examination.

Even when VSTs pass the validators - both VST2 and VST3, I end up with tons of Virtual Instruments and Plug-ins that will not show up as available for use anywhere in the DAW. This happens across different vendors: Native Instruments, iZotope, UJAM, IK Multimedia, Steinberg, etc.

Sometimes, reinstalling the plug-in will get it to show up (usually helps with Komplete Kontrol, for example), but others (like Maschine 2, and some UJAM VST2s) simply will never be usable in DP despite passing the validator.

It's not usable because the VST support is so bad. It's not even Alpha-level ready. On top of this mess, you also have to contend with:

1. DP Updates/Upgrades
2. Plug-in/Virtual Instrument Updates/Upgrades

rendering you unable to work if you use this DAW on Windows, because updating either of those has a very high chance of rendering multiple plugins unusable in the DAW (due to them failing the re-validation or disappearing from the plug-in chooser). The chances of this happening is extremely high. You basically have to lock your entire configuration in place if you can get it to a point where everything works. No updates for anything. DP, Plugins, Virtual Instruments... whatever. Just never mess with that stuff. Pretend it's a web server. Take the machine off the internet and just use it as is. Not sure I would ever take a DP 12 upgrade, even if I could miraculously get DP 11 to work, for these reasons.

I got it over Thanksgiving Holiday and I have spent more time troubleshooting issues, buying replacement hardware (doesn't work with M-Audio interfaces, when everything else does), and reinstalling software than doing anything music-related with this DAW. I think I've gone above and beyond what can be expected for a normal user...

I tried cleaning DP completely off of my system and reinstalling, and the only thing I got was a different set of VST failures and even more virtual instruments/plugins that I cannot use, as they stopped showing up in the plug-in chooser.

So, I gave up and uninstalled it. I'm tired of reinstalling software and spending hours disabling/enabling plugins hoping to hit the VST lottery with this DAW. All of this, across both my Desktop Workstation and my Laptop. It's a part time job just keeping this software functioning properly. It is literally like dealing with a homebrew Linux distro in 2001.

I'd ask for a refund, but at this point I don't even care that much. And I doubt they'd give me one, anyways. I mean, they're still selling it, so... ...

[JeffatMOTUN]

I feel for you iTrensharo and I only have a basic VST setup as you can see in my forum signature. The only solution I have found is to uninstall DP 10, copy all the VST files I what to load into "C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins", reinstall DP, start 64 bit and let it examine those VSTs upon first start, and don't close the program after that as it may just lose them. Not a good solution. Have you contacted MOTU about this?

[iTrensharo]

Yes. Standard "works for us" response.

I'm not bothering anymore. Too much time and money dumped into those issues already.

I'm not much into masochism.

EDIT: They are issuing me a refund.

[JeffatMOTUN]

A new question here: since DP doesn't appear to be consistent or stable between program shutdowns and restarts, is there a file, group of files, registry entry, or something that I could stash when the VSTs are working that I could reinstate when they are not working? Through this forum I have discovered how to export/import and even edit the bundles file, which is very handy, but how about a "VST" file? Thanks