Fully weighted good MIDI keyboard?

[Gate 13]

Hello,
I have had for years a 62 keys M-Audio (very soft keys, not happy at all) and a cheap 88 keys StudioLogic MK88 (semi weighted).

Before my main question (what is a good affordable 88 fully weighted keys) can someone explain to me this:
I have my M-audio keyboard connected through USB to my mac pro, and the 88keys keyboard connected through MIDI OUT to the M-audio MIDI IN port (and to the power outlet).
The problem is that the 88 keys keyboard has a low volume. Does it have to do with the fact that it is not connected directly to the mac? Or it has to do with the keyboard itself?
Thank you!

[HCMarkus]

Not sure I understand your query about the "low volume"... please explain more clearly.

As far as weighted action 88 key controllers, my preference is one of the nice electronic pianos made by Yamaha, Roland, Kawai and others. They all produce sound and many have built-in speakers, which is handy when one needs a quick audio source during a songwriting session or other such scenario, and their weighted, hammer-action keyboards are generally excellent. They do vary in feel from model to model; as such, the best way to choose your favorite is to play it yourself. I currently use a Yamaha P-255, which has a lovely action and decent built-in piano, Rhodes and other sounds.

The downside of these pianos is lack of controls; typically they don't have a mod or pitch wheel, any rotary or fader-style controls, or pedal jacks other than damper. On my studio keyboard stand's upper tier, I have a synth-action Roland A800; it provides all the controls I need, plus an expression pedal jack. With the Yamaha and Roland connected via USB, both keyboards address record-enabled MIDI tracks, so I can play the Yamaha keyboard and futz with the Roland's controls simultaneously.

I'll mention the Yamaha FC7 as, IMO, the best Expression Pedal. Solid, weighted design with variable throw and angle. If use with a Roland keyboard, the tip and sleeve must be swapped on the TRS plug.

[cuttime]

Yes, as HCM said: since a controller doesn't produce any sound, how is the volume too low? Do you mean that the velocity it produces is too low? If so, try a MIDI Monitor:

https://www.snoize.com/midimonitor/

[Gate 13]

Thank you all,
I mean if I play the same exact notes (same finger force) on the same track in my Maudio and studiologic, the notes on my studiologic sound lower.
I checked the velocity numbers and indeed they are recorded with a smaller velocity.
If the studiologic was connected directly through USB into the mac pro would this make a difference?

[mikehalloran]

A Yamaha P121 does the work around here—the 88 key version is the P125.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detai ... iano-white

Like many Yamaha pianos and MIDI controllers, this has

Graded Hammer Standard action, which is heavier in the low keys and lighter in the high keys, emulating the dynamic feel of hammers on real acoustic piano strings.…

The action feel is adjustable—the lightest of the three settings is what my wife likes but it reduces the dynamic range (which I don’t like). A FC3A pedal provides a ‘half-damper’ setting. If you get the optional full stand, you can attach an LP-1 3-pedal assembly.

This, too does not have MIDI controller wheels but Yamaha does make units that do while still having the GHS action. A buddy of mine swears by his MOD8X.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detai ... ynthesizer

There are many others, of course.

[mikehalloran]

If the studiologic was connected directly through USB into the mac pro would this make a difference

Probably.

How exactly are you connecting it to the M-Audio and what M-Audio interface are you using?

[Gate 13]

Probably.

How exactly are you connecting it to the M-Audio and what M-Audio interface are you using?

Studio logic in power outlet and from MIDI out ot MIDI in of Maudio.
Maudio connects through USB in Mac.

I have a presonus audio interface.

[mikehalloran]

Which M-Audio?

[stubbsonic]

Here are some things to think about when you shop.

Before you get to the velocity itself, there's the feel of the keys. Some weighted (hammer-action) keys overly exaggerate the weight and hammer and can feel really sluggish. If you close your eyes and imagine sitting at a piano, it will feel heavier and slower. I think this is less of a problem than it was decades ago.

All MIDI controller keyboards interpret your actual played dynamics differently. This mainly involves range-- i.e., how slow of a key press will generate a 1, and how hard do you have to bang to get a 127. Sadly most keyboards don't give you any control over range. Next is the curve. Ideally, a linear curve will get you very close to the response you want, and then you can make it concave or convex to give you the response you need. Some keyboards give you quite a few options including multiple break points on the curve, as well as a value offset (e.g., add 10 to all velocities).

I suspect the 88 key just has a different range & curve so your playing requires more elbow grease to compensate. You might try using a different curve.

As for recommended models, if you TRULY want a fully-weighted keyboard-- and your goal is to replicate the experience of a real piano, then a graded hammer action is pretty essential. These folks here will have good suggestions (see above!) But if you're not really needing the full piano experience, a really good semi-weighted action has one specific advantage: fast repeated notes-- which can help with percussion things.

[Gate 13]

Which M-Audio?

M-audio Axiom 61

[Gate 13]

As for recommended models, if you TRULY want a fully-weighted keyboard-- and your goal is to replicate the experience of a real piano, then a graded hammer action is pretty essential. These folks here will have good suggestions (see above!) But if you're not really needing the full piano experience, a really good semi-weighted action has one specific advantage: fast repeated notes-- which can help with percussion things.

I mostly want it for recording strings to be able to control more the velocities. M audio Axiom is very lighted and a little more force on the key can make it sound much louder.

Will a breath controller mitigate this issue instead of buying a new keyboard? Or a breath controller is only for expression?

[cuttime]

Is aftertouch important to you? If so, you're simply not going to find a key bed that feels exactly like a piano. I like my Arturia Keylab 88 MkII a lot, and almost as many people who love it hate it. It also has mono aftertouch keys and poly aftertouch pads. Keyboards are really subjective, and try before you buy is really important unless you can find a dealer with a good return policy.

[Gate 13]

And the studiologic TMk 88 doesnt have even a usb port to connect directly to mac as Maudio has... only a MIDI out!!!
Wow.
I really need to see why the notes sound softer when I record play from the studiologic keyboard!

[stubbsonic]

See if there's an option to change the velocity curve on your 88.

Depending on which instrument/synth you are controlling, you can do quite a bit with a Breath Controller.

In Respiro, I can choose whether velocity, B.C. or a combination of the two controls the dynamics. I tend to use both, so that velocity controls the initial volume and breath can handle things after the attack. However, for strings, you may find that BC alone can do what you need. I think it's largely a matter configuring things correctly, then developing your skills with time & practice. I don't think a fully-weighted/hammer-action will help or hinder, it's just a matter of whether you like that feel.

[HCMarkus]

See if there's an option to change the velocity curve on your 88.

What Stubbs said. By definition, weighted and unweighted keys are gonna' feel different to your touch. Look for that velocity curve/sensitivity parameter. Note that it is unlikely that MIDI velocity reported to a computer will differ between MIDI and USB ports on keyboards where both protocols are available.

I like aftertouch on a synth-action keyboard. not so much on a piano-action keyboard.

BC can do a lot, but there are scenarios where velocity control is necessary... imagine playing a piano patch without velocity control. When it comes to strings, much depends on how a patch is programmed. If patch is set up to switch samples in response to velocity, BC will only do so much. If a patch is set up so that a controller can crossfade between samples, BC can be excellent.