New Mac Options

[Michael Canavan]

So for me, the plan is to wait until there is a NEW Mac Pro with the NEW M1 chips, plenty of RAM and Pro slots and connections.

Who agrees? Who disagrees?

The problem is how long will that wait be? The Mac Pro is not Apples bread and butter, it's more a testimony to what they can do. It took years for them to release a new Mac Pro past the trash cans, and it's arguable that unless they plan on selling literal supercomputers, the new Mac Pro case is larger than they will need to beat it, speed wise. So a redesign is very likely.

I'm of the impression that it won't be cheaper, and we still don't know how these new Arm chips behave in multi physical core setups. I'm trying to figure out a scenario where Apple will sink the money and R&D into a 28+ core chip it will only use on its most expensive least selling product? When it comes to desktops, there's a tradeoff power wise that lessons the benefits of the latest greatest chip, less power consumption but at what cost? So you're machine is 15-20db quieter than an AMD but the AMD is 50% more powerful.

I'm not at all skeptical about the next generation of Macbook Pros, Minis etc. that are coming, they're going to smoke the competition, but we have not seen what they can do with these chips and a desktop, the M1 iMac is the same mobile chip with the same performance. I'm happy to be blown away, but I get the impression that Apple isn't that interested in blowing us away with a product that isn't just an insane cash cow. So them beating AMD on desktops IMO is unlikely.

[mikehalloran]

Of course, a new Mac Pro is in the works. Rumors of it have been leaking like a sieve for over a year, now, and it’s one of the worst kept secrets around. Apple executives have mentioned it a couple of times around the release of the M1 Mini without being specific about the details, of course. The group that produced the 7.1 has not been disbanded and prototypes have been floating around a few major studios. All this is known.

It will likely have a smaller form factor since it won’t need to accommodate a pair if Intel CPUs + the required cooling. My guess is that RAM will be integrated like the current M1 — the advantages are just too huge. It still needs to accept additional storage plus bleeding edge AV cards which will likely be ARM based. My guess is that the hold up is the research is to make AV rendering that runs circles around the current state of the art for the high end graphics (ARM holds that promise), film and animation studios spending $56K for a loaded 7.1 because it outperforms $150k Maya rendering stations running Win10.

They learned their lesson with the 6.1 — the High end market needs to do what they want and how and Apple showed they were listening with the 7.1.

When? It’s Apple — when they are ready and not before.

They are not building it to be the state of the art music production machine—that’s just a benefit. A new ARM iMac with 8TB storage and a decent sized monitor will do that. The current Mini, MBP, M1 Mini and iMac Pro will handle a thousand tracks of audio and VIs with plugins, let alone the MP 7.1.

Most rumors that I hear have that new 27”–32” (I’m guessing 30”) iMac coming in the next few months with a Mac Pro announcement around the same time. It might be like the 7.1 “We’re building it so wait”. We’ll know soon enough.

Me? I’m waiting for the next iMac if it has 8TB onboard but am content with an iMac Pro for now.

[James Steele]

Most rumors that I hear have that new 27”–32” (I’m guessing 30”) iMac coming in the next few months with a Mac Pro announcement around the same time. It might be like the 7.1 “We’re building it so wait”. We’ll know soon enough.

Hmmmm. That made me perk up. I’m using a MacPro 5,1 12 core with a 30” Cinema for my main monitor and 23” Cinema as my secondary. If the 30” iMac will best my current cheese grater it would be an easy swap and I could lose the tower and bring one of my racks closer. Hmmmm.

[greg328]

As long as you don’t need PCIe card slots that would work. I need to run a UA accelerator card so I’ve got to have a tower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dix]

As long as you don’t need PCIe card slots that would work. I need to run a UA accelerator card so I’ve got to have a tower.

Many of us run UAD cards. Whatever the price of a new Mac is just add $800 for a UAD Satellite (for a QUAD in my case).

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ap=y&smp=y ...just $760 here!

[James Steele]

As long as you don’t need PCIe card slots that would work. I need to run a UA accelerator card so I’ve got to have a tower.

Yeah... come to think if it that dampens my enthusiasm a bit. I have a second monitor, and believe it or not am still using a MOTU PCIe card with my attached HD192 and 24 I/O interfaces... AND a UAD-2 Quad card, so I'd end up having to buy a lot of other stuff to get back to where I was. I've been weaning myself from the UA plug ins however, just because with native processing becoming so powerful, not sure I want to keep putting money into them. I haven't for years, so I could let that go. But I still have the problem of replacing my interfaces and having to get a second (Thunderbolt?) monitor.

I just ordered a Console 1 now that DP 11.01 has full support for it... that may also reduce my need for the UA stuff that I have. Seems like I may just have to treat my MacPro 5,1 like my cars... drive it till it just won't drive anymore.

[mikehalloran]

The MOTU PCIe and UA cards without upgradeable firmware do not work in a Mac after the 5.1 and, as we should all know by now, there is no workaround.

UA cards with upgradeable firmware that work in the MP 7.1 should be compatible with future MPs once UA updates the firmware — which they seem to do eventually even if it takes a couple years.

This article from February is about as much as most people know. It’s a good start in any case:
https://www.cultofmac.com/736019/excit ... -pro-mini/

[James Steele]

The MOTU PCIe and UA cards without upgradeable firmware do not work in a Mac after the 5.1 and, as we should all know by now, there is no workaround.

I remember that. As I recall only the OCTO was upgradeable and I don't remember if UA ever followed through with that. I know they were dragging their feet for a long time. Until I have a VERY compelling reason and I feel I can't get work done, I may be content to drive the 5,1 for a while still.

[dix]

In a rare exhibition of forethought I replaced my 2408mk3 with a USB I/O a while back with the eventuality of a Thunderbolt Mac in mind. But even so, apart from the cost of the new Mac there will be other hurdles financial and other wise to overcome, which I've yet to factor in I'm sure.

But I still have the problem of replacing my interfaces and having to get a second (Thunderbolt?) monitor.

I believe the current M1 MacMinis can run up to three 4k monitors. I'm guessing a Thunderbolt to HDMI adapter should work for your second monitor perhaps? ...i'm currently organized around four monitors, so I'm hoping the rumored additional ports in the rumored upcoming MacMini MX1 will make that possible.

Any other big hardware hurdles out there for those of us contemplating embracing the future (current) Mac's I'm not thinking of? ...nvr mind for the moment the enormous M1 software compatibility challenges.

[James Steele]

I'm guessing a Thunderbolt to HDMI adapter should work for your second monitor perhaps?

Ha! I'm pretty old school. I have two Cinema Displays. A 30" and a 23". They're both DVI. The 30" needs dual-link DVI. The 23" takes DVI or DisplayPort I think. LOL

[greg328]

I wasn't aware that the UA accelerator cards won't work beyond a Mac 5.1. All the more reason to keep mine.

Some of the UA card's firmware can be upgraded for 7.1? I'll contact UA directly to find out. Pretty sure I have the OCTO--but not near it now---will check.

Looking forward to receiving my Titan Ridge (flashed for Mac) and my Apollo Thunderbolt 3 adapter. I'll let the board know if it actually works!

Anybody have a line on 10 ft. Thunderbolt/USB-C cables? I need a long one to reach from Apollo to Mac---can't seem to find any on Ebay--need at LEAST 10 ft.

If I can get TB3 speeds off the Apollo---I'd be good to go for some time with my 5.1

Greg

[Michael Canavan]

Of course, a new Mac Pro is in the works. Rumors of it have been leaking like a sieve for over a year, now, and it’s one of the worst kept secrets around. Apple executives have mentioned it a couple of times around the release of the M1 Mini without being specific about the details, of course. The group that produced the 7.1 has not been disbanded and prototypes have been floating around a few major studios. All this is known.

It will likely have a smaller form factor since it won’t need to accommodate a pair if Intel CPUs + the required cooling. My guess is that RAM will be integrated like the current M1 — the advantages are just too huge. It still needs to accept additional storage plus bleeding edge AV cards which will likely be ARM based. My guess is that the hold up is the research is to make AV rendering that runs circles around the current state of the art for the high end graphics (ARM holds that promise), film and animation studios spending $56K for a loaded 7.1 because it outperforms $150k Maya rendering stations running Win10.

They learned their lesson with the 6.1 — the High end market needs to do what they want and how and Apple showed they were listening with the 7.1.

When? It’s Apple — when they are ready and not before.

They are not building it to be the state of the art music production machine—that’s just a benefit. A new ARM iMac with 8TB storage and a decent sized monitor will do that. The current Mini, MBP, M1 Mini and iMac Pro will handle a thousand tracks of audio and VIs with plugins, let alone the MP 7.1.

Most rumors that I hear have that new 27”–32” (I’m guessing 30”) iMac coming in the next few months with a Mac Pro announcement around the same time. It might be like the 7.1 “We’re building it so wait”. We’ll know soon enough.

Me? I’m waiting for the next iMac if it has 8TB onboard but am content with an iMac Pro for now.

Good points, although I'm skeptical of this sentence?

The group that produced the 7.1 has not been disbanded and prototypes have been floating around a few major studios.

What do you mean by that??

You're missing my main point, waiting for the new Mac Pro might be a really long time, it's not their cash cow, and nothing is out about how Apples silicon scales with massive multicore setups like AMD has. The M1 is pretty great, but it doesn't automatically beat huge multicore setups, which is what Apple is up against in the desktop market. AMD is currently at 128 cores, Apple could theoretically release a 64 core machine that smokes it, but nothing is known yet. We saw how long it took them to change the design of the trash can, and they talked about it all the time.

Another thought that's backed up by what they've done so far is all of their releases are probably going to be around a single chip design from now on. Every release until now has used the same M1. It's highly likely this is how they roll out going forward, with the M1x (or M2 depending on what naming scheme they adopt), next (10-16 possible core), being used in the 14-16" Macbook Pros, and mid tier iMacs, possibly a Mini Pro. After that a jump to iMac Pro 20-32 core chips is possible, but it's hard for me to imagine that they will be satisfied with a 32 core Apple Silicon Mac Pro, especially when AMD will likely have something past the current 128 core chip they have out now.

I don't see any reasonable way a Mac Pro comes out before mid 2022 at earliest, more like early 2023 if we look at past results.

[mikehalloran]

What do you mean by that??

Exactly what I wrote. The Mac Pro group has not been disbanded and is working with big studios, same as they did in the 4 years leading u to the 7.1 — they were into that a year before they announced it to the press. Contrast that with the group working on 801.11ac wireless: the day after the TimeCapsule/Airport units were released in 2013, the wireless networking group was disbanded and all were reassigned including my son-in-law.

You're missing my main point,

I’m missing nothing and feel I addressed your concerns. Anyway, I agree with them. Although there may be an announcement this fall, it will likely be like the 7.1 “Don’t worry, we’ve not forgotten…” although I doubt it will take another three years. Whether they go with advanced versions of current AV cards or wait till new ARM cards are ready is the only thing I see that affects the timeline.

In other words, no one should hold his/her breath waiting on this machine that, even more than the 7.1 is designed for film and animation studios. It is coming, though, there’s no doubt about that.

[mikehalloran]

But I still have the problem of … having to get a second (Thunderbolt?) monitor

No Mac has ever needed a Thunderbolt monitor.

5K and 6K monitors require TB3 but the Macs support 4K and lower through HDMI and Display Port. USB-C to HDMI or DP adapter cables are cheap.

For older TB/TB2 Macs, MDP (mini display port) is the actual video protocol supported by the TB port — those cables are cheap, also. TB/TB2 Macs cannot use 5K or 6K monitors that I know of.

Thunderbolt Monitors pass through TB — that’s what makes them TB monitors.

[Michael Canavan]

What do you mean by that??

Exactly what I wrote. The Mac Pro group has not been disbanded and is working with big studios, same as they did in the 4 years leading u to the 7.1 — they were into that a year before they announced it to the press.

OK I think I get what you mean, it just reads like Apple farms out test Mac Pros to big studios, that's what had me double take. Unless something has changed in the last 6 years since my friend worked in QA among other departments there, they don't farm out test machines.


Apple definitely do work with developers and studios they deem good ambassadors. U-He talked about getting visits from Apple reps for instance.