Pet Peave: Logic Pro's Help Docs

[stubbsonic]

Logic Pro is the DAW of choice for a class I'm sub teaching. It's been a while since I've used Logic, and I didn't use it much.

There've been more an a few times I've searched for help on a particular topic. I get a lovely little description of the thing I'm trying to find. Conspicuously absent (most times) is where to find said item.

I'm sure new DP users may struggle in some similar ways. For one thing, you have to know what a thing is called. You also need to have a "big picture" view of the software, before zooming in for more details (Ergh. COVID certainly makes the phrase "zooming in" more annoying. Sorry.)

Ultimately, it'll be interesting to get a grasp of Logic-- even though my access to it will end with the semester. I'm curious as to whether I'll discover some feature(s) that would make me want to kick down $200 for my own license.

[Michael Canavan]

Logic Pro is the DAW of choice for a class I'm sub teaching. It's been a while since I've used Logic, and I didn't use it much.

There've been more an a few times I've searched for help on a particular topic. I get a lovely little description of the thing I'm trying to find. Conspicuously absent (most times) is where to find said item.

I'm sure new DP users may struggle in some similar ways. For one thing, you have to know what a thing is called. You also need to have a "big picture" view of the software, before zooming in for more details (Ergh. COVID certainly makes the phrase "zooming in" more annoying. Sorry.)

Ultimately, it'll be interesting to get a grasp of Logic-- even though my access to it will end with the semester. I'm curious as to whether I'll discover some feature(s) that would make me want to kick down $200 for my own license.

Logic has a manual in the Help section. You can also (and it's better or more updated than DPs version), use the info ? in header to get a full topic on what you select with the mouse by using Command /.

[stubbsonic]

Thanks. That's helpful.

One example was when I wanted to find where "Markers" are. I read through several entries about markers-- "yea, yea, I know WHAT markers are. WHERE the f are they?!" Without any help from the docs/help, I found them in the arrangement track which is hidden by default. It's early days. I'm sure I'll get a handle on it soon.

[mikehalloran]

Logic’s help files still refer to functionality that hasn’t existed since OS 10.4. Apple does update it but it’s way, way overdue for a rewrite by a tech writer who actually goes through to see what does and does not work.

MOTU’s Performer Lite manual is a cut and paste job from the DP 4 manual (really) referring to functions and pages that do not exist. It has gotten better with the recent update.

I find the current DP user manual much better than either.

[cuttime]

This says Nov. 2020?

https://books.apple.com/us/book/logic-p ... d960809726

[bayswater]

I"ve never found the Logic manual useful. As you say, it tells you all sort of stuff, but not where to find it. It also tells you all sorts of great stuff Logic does, but not how to do it. My guess is they hired a bunch of guys from IBM's ancient JCL operation to write the manual, because it has so many bizarre similarities. I've been told the Logic manual assumes the user has done the training and only needs the manual as a reference guide. Logic also has various "rites of passage" and the manual might be one of them.

I use the books written by Edgar Rothermich. The PDF versions are fairly inexpensive, and these manuals leave no stone unturned.

[stubbsonic]

I use the books written by Edgar Rothermich. The PDF versions are fairly inexpensive, and these manuals leave no stone unturned.

Thanks for the lead. I'll see how I do with the freebie docs. I need enough mastery to help guide, as well as model the resourcefulness to find answers when I'm stuck.

[stubbsonic]

I thought I'd found Markers, using the Arrangement track. However, if you try to move or delete those markers, you delete the content in your tracks.

This is a case where a seasoned logic user might have seen me trying to use Arrangement Markers could have said, "It's a trap!"

Oh, and holy crap, I can't believe those synth GUI's. I was pretty stunned to see they haven't changed for decades.

I'm about to cover synths in a class, and those won't do.

[Michael Canavan]

I thought I'd found Markers, using the Arrangement track. However, if you try to move or delete those markers, you delete the content in your tracks.

This is a case where a seasoned logic user might have seen me trying to use Arrangement Markers could have said, "It's a trap!"

Oh, and holy crap, I can't believe those synth GUI's. I was pretty stunned to see they haven't changed for decades.

I'm about to cover synths in a class, and those won't do.

Alchemy and the Vintage synth have decent GUIs. The others are from 2000! , although I don't feel that pious about mocking them considering at least they're resizable, unlike MX4 which looks just as dated.

So in the Global Tracks (Logics equivalent to the Conductor Track), there are two kinds of markers, the one labeled Marker is what you want, you're very obviously using Arrangement Markers which are directly above regular markers. A few other DAWs do this, in DP Markers just have hidden features, in Logic there are two different kinds, Arrangement markers rearrange, delete and otherwise treat parts like block of data, regular markers are for unique names jumping around an arrangement etc. You can delete Arrangement Markers, but you have to disconnect them as described in the search typing in Arrangement Marker.

IMO when learning a new DAW it's easiest to see if you're doing something wrong or if there's another way to do it by searching the keyboard commands. The trick of course is not everything is labeled the same since there are no universal standards for things like what to call parsed MIDI etc. Barring that though it's not too bad.

[Michael Canavan]

Oh, and yeah, things are dated, you do not control click the Arrangement title to access "Suspend Content Connection" anymore, a single click does it.

[stubbsonic]

Alchemy and the Vintage synth have decent GUIs.

You're right. Those were the two that made the cut for me as well.

So in the Global Tracks (Logics equivalent to the Conductor Track), there are two kinds of markers, the one labeled Marker is what you want, you're very obviously using Arrangement Markers which are directly above regular markers.

Seems like "Global Tracks" is an umbrella that refers to Arrangement, Tempo, Movie, and Transposition tracks as a group- not clear which of those would contain the markers that are not arrangement markers. Just to let you know, I do appreciate your help, but I don't mean for this thread to take up anyone's time helping me figure out Logic (though it is appreciated, for sure). I'm just venting.

It's really shocking and almost hilarious how unhelpful the help is, how dull the cutting edge is, and (at times) how not-Logic-al it is. I know I'm not the first to say it, and won't be the last.

IMO when learning a new DAW it's easiest to see if you're doing something wrong or if there's another way to do it by searching the keyboard commands. The trick of course is not everything is labeled the same since there are no universal standards for things like what to call parsed MIDI etc. Barring that though it's not too bad.

I don't even know what parsed MIDI is, but that aside, your point is taken. Thanks for your advice and comments. It helps.

[bayswater]

I don't even know what parsed MIDI is

It's what you see in the DP Tracks Window on a MIDI Tracks.

[Michael Canavan]

So in the Global Tracks (Logics equivalent to the Conductor Track), there are two kinds of markers, the one labeled Marker is what you want, you're very obviously using Arrangement Markers which are directly above regular markers.

Seems like "Global Tracks" is an umbrella that refers to Arrangement, Tempo, Movie, and Transposition tracks as a group- not clear which of those would contain the markers that are not arrangement markers. Just to let you know, I do appreciate your help, but I don't mean for this thread to take up anyone's time helping me figure out Logic (though it is appreciated, for sure). I'm just venting.

Arrangement markers and regular markers are right next to each other in Global tracks.

It's really shocking and almost hilarious how unhelpful the help is, how dull the cutting edge is, and (at times) how not-Logic-al it is. I know I'm not the first to say it, and won't be the last.

Honestly, it's really that you and others used a different DAW first. Being on the Logic Pro facebook groups the average intelligence of a Logic user is pretty low. If it was truly a complex and impenetrable DAW then this wouldn't be the case. Mostly it takes months to really master any DAW, especially if you're unlearning another DAWs methods. On KVR for instance most people seem to thing DP is an impenetrable mess. <-not true, it's just different in some areas from other DAWs and that throws people off before they get the hang of it.

Honestly it's been a while since I was an expert in Logic (version 8 ten years ago), and Logic's help was just fine, I spent less than 5 minutes coming up with an answer for you using the built in help. Some things are dated or slightly changed, but that's not unusual at all. If you really want to lose your mind with a confusing and hard to understand DAW compared to DP, Reeeper (can't spell it right on these forums because James disagrees with their nagware demo policy), is as far away from a tape deck, mixer model as you can get.
I mean I get it, people are loyalists to DP like they should be, , but a lot of the confusion anyone has to any DAW is learning a particular set of functions on a DAW then trying to replicate that in the new one. there are weird things about all the DAWs, but the 8-10 DAWs out there are all thriving for a reason.

I don't even know what parsed MIDI is, but that aside, your point is taken. Thanks for your advice and comments. It helps.

Parsed MIDI is what DP called MIDI in the tracks window, the breaks in the MIDI etc. In other DAWs like Logic and all the rest the MIDI is more like DP's new Clips. Thing is there's hardly a standard: Parsed MIDI, Items, Clips, objects etc. etc. are all chunks of MIDI and what the various DAWs call those chunks. You have to learn a new language when you learn a new DAW, it doesn't help for sure, but it's how it is.

[stubbsonic]

Honestly, it's really that you and others used a different DAW first.

That is certainly part of it. However, I've jumped in with a few other DAWs: most recently Pro-Tools, MultiTrack Studio, and a few others. They are all different, and yes, there's a weirdness-- particularly around each DAW's attitude toward "tools". But still, they all were at least somewhat intuitive.

With all those other DAWs, it was pretty easy to figure out, and if I got stuck, the docs or built-in help got me unstuck pretty quickly.

To take a slightly different example, I've found Finale to be kind of similarly difficult, but if I ever got stuck, it was easy to find answers. I don't remember using the manual at all, but the site had good resources.

Back to my original gripe, there is nothing helpful about the documentation at all.

BTW, what you said about regular markers and Arrangement Markers being right next to each other... Does that mean they are both in the Arrangement Track? How to I access the regular markers?

[Michael Canavan]

Back to my original gripe, there is nothing helpful about the documentation at all.

Sure, I just somehow was able to use it I guess. It literally took me less than 5 minutes to get the answer. When I was using Logic there weren't any Arrangement markers etc. so it's not my knowledge that did it. Again, it's vastly popular, and used by total noobs, who manage to figure it out. Pro Tools is surprisingly similar to DP, I spend almost no time in Pro Tools but the similarities are there.

BTW, what you said about regular markers and Arrangement Markers being right next to each other... Does that mean they are both in the Arrangement Track? How to I access the regular markers?

In the Global Tracks, the top lane is called Arrangement, the one right below it is the regular marker. Both are instantiated in the Arrange by the plus sign there. Regular Markers don't do the whole Verse, Chorus, Bridge thing and are nameable.

To give you some credit though, I own 5 DAWs, 9 if you include MPC, Reason, ReNoise, and Maschine. There's just a method to unlearning what you know from other DAWs, and assuming that there's going to be some unmentioned or poorly documented parts in the manual.

For instance even DP has some areas. I'm looking for a full explanation of how to set up takes in the DP manual, it's just not there. It's not rocket science to assume that overdub might create multiple takes on the fly while recording with the memory cycle on, but it's not mentioned anywhere in the manual I could find. All the manual mentions is selecting a new take to advance takes..