What we can surmise from Performer Lite

[Michael Canavan]

So Performer Lite is upon us. Screenshots point to Clips being integrated into the arrangement timeline, as objects or regions etc. This is the compromise that everyone could agree, upon, in the Sweetwater video we see traditional MIDI tracks as well as clips. I don't think it's any stretch to say this is coming to DP10 as well, since at the moment Lite seems to have a way to record or move Clips to the timeline.

A bigger stretch but still likely IMO is the lack of tabs in Lite. It would be weird to allow this in Lite, but clutter DP10 the Pro version, with Tabs.

Another leap of Faith, a Seabord Block MPE controller is used as a prop in the adds for Perfomer Lite and the M4. Ableton Live doesn't do MPE natively either, so it's possible that DP gets MPE support.

Anyway, since MOTU doesn't usually outside of announcing new features at NAMM sometimes do any speculation it's up to us, and it does look interesting in the future here when DP10.1, or whatever number they give, it drops!

I hope for some better control surface support, I know that's a stretch, but Clips are so much better with lit LED pads like in Puch 2, Launchpad, APC40 and Mini etc. Anyway where's the update!

[Prime Mover]

MPE support is looking more and more likely, as Roli and MOTU's target audience (EDM babes) seems to align.

I've noted before that I'm a little weary of their implementation of MPE within the existing framework. If it's not done neatly, it could be a MASSIVE fustercluck, as MPE requires easily navigating a lot of CC data. I still say that MPE could have a very nice workflow with multiple channels, if only they implemented a few UI features to the existing palette. We'll just have to see. But I expect to see it in a 10.5 or 11 update, it seems right up DPs ally right now. As a Seaboard player, I'm reluctantly hopeful.

[Michael Canavan]

Yeah definitely if you look at other DAWs with MPE support some don't do it that well, Logic for instance.
MPE eats up all 16 channels available to software instruments, so you can only play one at a time, no ELP moves! MPE seems like a no brainer to me for support in DP, considering they're going to attract some Live/Bitwig users with the new Clips feature, and MPE is obviously useful for film composers.

I'm also super curious as to how Clips are being worked out, as it stands it does a sort of Session / Arrangement View thing that Live does, but no Tracks or Sequence Editor recording of Clips. With the screenshots of Perfomer Lite you're seeing Clips as a selection on the Tracks, and I'm curious as to how that's being implemented? because so far only in the Sweetwater video for the M4 do you see regular "Note" tracks as they're calling non object oriented MIDI, and you do not see it with Clips in the same view. Hopefully it's per track, and not global, but either way I'm wondering how it's going to work?

[greg328]

What the heck is MPE?


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[stubbsonic]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI#MIDI ... Expression


Though the original MIDI spec supports polyphonic aftertouch, it only does one stream of expression per note. And MPE or "CE" (continuous expression) controllers have multiple dimensions of control per note, allowing you to control different qualities of the sound on a per note basis. The clever "workaround" is to have the MPE-capable synth "listen" to multiple MIDI channels as if each is a voice of polyphony. And each "voice" has it's own pitch-bend, after-touch, etc. And it does this while still using the mighty, original MIDI specification.

The synth MUST respond to MPE. The DAW, theoretically could just record multiple channels separately-- but it makes editing and other work much more laborious.

MPE sacrifices multi-timbral (multiple sounds on multiple MIDI channels). So it requires a different kind of setup and workflow.

The new MIDI 2.0 specification would solve everything, but it is difficult to say if/when manufacturers will adopt. At some point, it could be possible that DP and other DAWs can use MIDI 2.0 as their internal format and then use other processes to receive MPE from the outside world, and convert it to whatever might be needed for the VI synth internally.

[terrybritton]

MPE eats up all 16 channels available to software instruments, so you can only play one at a time, no ELP moves!

With DP's MAS able to access 48 MIDI ports with 16 channels each, I am hopeful that this will not in practice force one to play only one MIDI instrument at a time!

Terry

[Michael Canavan]

MPE eats up all 16 channels available to software instruments, so you can only play one at a time, no ELP moves!

With DP's MAS able to access 48 MIDI ports with 16 channels each, I am hopeful that this will not in practice force one to play only one MIDI instrument at a time!

Terry

It won't. DP can distinguish MIDI controllers by port, Logic cannot. It's my biggest gripe with Logic. It's a minor thing really, it's just much more fun to have a few controllers going at once rather than having to manually switch between them. As it stand the Roli Rise 49 here takes 16 MIDI channels in DP but on it's own MIDI port so not a big deal.

It's not impossible to use MPE in DP as it stands, but it's a slightly messy process compared to DAWs than natively support it. Plus DP10 isn't playing back aftertouch currently, kinda messes up MPE not to be able to. The DAW that shouldn't be feared according to Blue Oyster Cult isn't without it's issues with MPE, currently spent way too much time trying to edit a note in an MPE track with it crashing every time.. Mostly MPE isn't the sort of playing you would want to edit, but we should be able to without crashes.

[Michael Canavan]

If you look in the top right of the Transport you can see the Performer Lite version of "tabs" in DP10. Instead of names in the middle of the program you're getting icons on the top of the screen. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
https://cdn-data.motu.com/django_prod/f ... editor.png

[dix]

If you look in the top right of the Transport you can see the Performer Lite version of "tabs" in DP10. Instead of names in the middle of the program you're getting icons on the top of the screen. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
https://cdn-data.motu.com/django_prod/f ... editor.png

Hmm. No TO? It looks like just SE, ME, Mixer and Clips tabs.

[Michael Canavan]

Hmm. No TO? It looks like just SE, ME, Mixer and Clips tabs.

No Tracks, and so far it looks like the MIDI Editor is only a sub window, the staff is the notation editor as seen in the Sweetwater video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsJip1J ... u.be&t=270

Sub Window seen here:
https://cdn-data.motu.com/django_prod/f ... ling-2.jpg

I'm betting the limitations aren't going to be the same. Can't imagine they would get rid of the Tracks window mid upgrade cycle?

[mhschmieder]

I sure hope not! I live primarily in the Tracks window, and it is the main reason I can't get along with the workflows of other DAW's.

I know that previous polls showed that most people live in the Sequence window, but for those of us who do large-scale orchestrations and use a lot of instruments (sometimes just for an accent here and there) even in non-classical work, I suspect there are quite a few people besides myself who very much need the Tracks window, even though the Sequence window can be painstakingly scaled to give a somewhat similar overview -- but of course this means you have to resize individual tracks way too frequently as you switch between tasks.

[Michael Canavan]

I sure hope not! I live primarily in the Tracks window, and it is the main reason I can't get along with the workflows of other DAW's.

I know that previous polls showed that most people live in the Sequence window, but for those of us who do large-scale orchestrations and use a lot of instruments (sometimes just for an accent here and there) even in non-classical work, I suspect there are quite a few people besides myself who very much need the Tracks window, even though the Sequence window can be painstakingly scaled to give a somewhat similar overview -- but of course this means you have to resize individual tracks way too frequently as you switch between tasks.

I think for anyone using MIDI the way DP handles MIDI, the Tracks window is a far easier window to work in. If your'e primarily recording audio tracks the Sequence Editor is where you would live. To a degree it looks like the SE (Sequence Editor) is getting some TO (Track Overview), features with Clips etc. but I seriously don't think they will eliminate the TO just because the SE is getting some love.

Again I wish they would just go ahead and release it, I'm really liking the changes and I'm anxious to see how they will implement them into DP10.

[dix]

Though I doubt either will go away in DP anytime soon, the loss of the ME alarms me more than the loss of the TO. I know I’m a weirdo, but I work all day everyday with MIDI and rarely use the TO. I’m all about the ME and SE in that order. That said, the simple single page layout of P lite looks pretty elegant. One could get plenty done with it I’m sure, and it may bring some more users into the fold.

[Michael Canavan]

Though I doubt either will go away in DP anytime soon, the loss of the ME alarms me more than the loss of the TO.

The ME is still there in Performer Lite, just as a sub window. I doubt they would limit us to that in DP10 when these changes happen in an update? wouldn't make any sense.

[cuttime]

Not sure if this is exactly a confirmation, but the TO resizing bug was confirmed by MOTU, and I was told it would be fixed in an update.