Enough is enough.

[Gravity Jim]

I've had it with DP. I almost quit using it at the dame of DP10, but I couldn't bring myself to give up my experience with the program.

But it drives me crazy. It crashes randomly, sometimes when doing something as simple as playing back a single MIDI piano track. It freezes and hangs, brings up the spinning beachball for minutes at a time, crashes on quit. The metronome suddenly turns itself on while the program is sitting idle. And the problems with the routing on my system have made the dang thing unusable... it will play back a recorded MIDI track, but won't produce sound from my keyboard... sometimes.

I've scrubbed the drive and done clean reinstalls of the Mac OS and DP, worked with one of the MOTU guys to figure it out, but to no avail. DP is just about as stable as a stack of stemware. I can't tell you how this pisses me off... I like DP's interface better than any other DAW, and I genuinely believe it sounds best, too. But it's interrupting my work every 10 minutes with some minor catastrophe. I don't like Logic Pro as well as DP, but at least it runs without incident.

I also don't like the guys at the Logic Pro forums as much as you guys, either. But it has gotten so bad I am actually switching in the middle of a project. I should have trusted my instincts and kept my MOTU refund when I had it.

So long, ya'll. See you on the Logic boards, maybe.

[stubbsonic]

You get plenty of sympathy from me, Jim. I've had more than my share of difficulties, and have looked at other options MANY times.

I've stayed with DP because there really isn't anything close that does what I need in terms of workflow. I'm not trying to talk you out of anything. Just saying, for me, the alternatives were more painful-- especially the ironically named Logic.

So my goal became to try to find a stable combination of system & DP version and stay as long as I can. Go kicking and screaming through any OS update and DP versions.

Seems like folks generally have better experiences, and/or perhaps just know things about how to avoid headaches that I don't know.

DP 9.51 works relatively ok for me on my current system. Still crashes all the time, but I just save all the time. It's a sad way to work, but that's just what I've come to expect.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Well that totally sucks! Sorry man. There's clearly something in your system/machine that does not like DP, not one bit. Moving to a different DAW may solve your issues. I hope it does. But I can't help but think that whatever it is that doesn't like DP may end up not liking other DAWs and you're back to square one.

I know how hard you've tried to hang in there. Thing is, you paid for DP, so if you ever do a clean install on a different (new?) machine and don't import your entire current system (IE - migrate the user) it might (and probably will) work just fine. And perhaps it's your magnetic personality creating a disturbance in the Force/multiverse?

Good luck, Jim. We'll miss ya around here!

[monkey man]

That sucks, Jim!

I realise it's too-late now, but if you can remember:

1) Is it possible a hardware-MIDI controller was sending spurious information at "random" intervals?

2) Did you try turning all energy-saving features off in Sys Prefs - sleep, drive spin-down etc?

3) Did you try running DP with all USB-and-MIDI gear disconnected?

4) Did you try running DP with all audio interfacing disconnected - using the 'puter's hardware only?

5) Did you try disconnecting from networks (including internet of course) altogether?

6) Inconvenient, I know, but did you try recreating your template from-scratch and loading projects into that?

It still boggles my mind that after all your and MOTU's efforts this year that you guys weren't able to get to the bottom of it. It's my firm belief that there's never been anything inherently-unstable about any of DP's point releases, at least AFAICR; crashes were always able to be traced to bugs that eventually got squashed.

So unhappy for you man. I'm having trouble letting go even 'though you have. Don't be surprised, and please forgive me, if further questions follow at some point.

Good luck, Jim, and don't be a stranger, mate.

[stubbsonic]

At some point I became suspicious of Rogue Amoeba installations. I've used Audio Hijack for many years, and recently installed SoundSource.

I only mention it in case it is a factor we have in common.

[FMiguelez]

I'm so sorry to hear this, Jim.

I know how frustrating and maddening fighting with DP all the time can be. And the uncertainty that it will start acting up in the least convenient moment is always a nasty feeling that doesn't fill one up with confidence with this tool.

There are features that simply don't work as advertised, there are many new bugs that mess up what used to work fine, there are still many old bugs that have never been corrected, and stubborn design and workflow issues that seem they won't ever be implemented, despite our complaints and showing great solutions for MOTU.
And that's just for normal/regular usage... Don't get me started on the digital errors/signal-flow issues most people don't even know about.

I'm in a place near where you are right now... The other day I wanted to work on a new piece. Turned everything on. Opened a 2 MIDI/2 Audio tracks project. I try to put one mere Waves EQ in a track, and instant crash.
So, now, suddenly and out of the blue, any non-MOTU plugin crashes the moment I select one ----> I don't need this crap. I just turned everything off and played some piano instead. I really don't feel like dealing with this to figure out what the problem is this time (it's always something).

DP stopped being rock solid for me around DP7.

[magicd]

I'm one of those people that make a living with DP. Stable as a rock here.

When I worked at MOTU I never met a problem that couldn't be solved or worked around. There is no such thing as a "random crash".

I really wanted to help Jim and offered to work with him off-line. I understand that for some people they reach a point where it's not worth their time to suss what's going wrong. But I firmly believe that there is always a solution and a logical path to that solution (besides using Logic )

Jim, if you read this, my offer of help remains open.

Dave

[HCMarkus]

I've got to chime in with a positive report, using DP9.52 under Sierra (I am now trying Mojave, with some excellent early results, but it's too early for reporting on this combination.) Can't say DP has never crashed, but with the exception of crash on quit (I can close a project and open another without issue) since I installed the latest update to BFD3, crashes have been extremely rare.

In short, extremely solid.

[mikehalloran]

I have had some truly bizarre behavior — more than once over the last 20 years. Every time it has turned out to be corrupt audio. There's a studio that sends me crap files so I know to look for them when things act up.

The worst ever was a year ago. The symptoms were similar to yours in 9.51. In 9.52, DP would load the project and crash immediately. Using APFS Snapshots, I was able to roll my system back to before I'd installed 9.52 but DP 9.51 was wildly unstable.

I'll spare you the diagnostics. Anyway, I ran all my audio through a file converter to strip and rebuild the headers to .wav, upgraded DP to 9.52 and all the issues were gone. I use TwistedWave but iTunes works well.

Later I found out that these files were recorded onto a 20 year old CD-Audio recorder. Gawdonlyknows what the heck was going on.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

As Jim may be gone for a bit, does anyone know if he used very large templates?

[dix]

I think we may need to just let Jim go. If I was fluent in another DAW and had his problems I'd of bailed awhile ago. Jim's situation is a real bummer, but fortunately (not for poor Jim, but for the rest of us) his problems are unique. I don't see any other users, on MN anyway, with anything close to this level of problems.

My rig is very similar to Jim's so I've been following his ordeal closely - there by the grace of go I. Ironically, it was with a lot of Jim's help here on MN that I put my system together, so I will sorely miss his input. Since I'm at least as stable with DP10 as I was when using DP9.52, I'm at a total loss as to what the issue is with his rig. If I were Jim, the one additional thing I would try is to take Magic Dave up on his offer for a one-on-one and see what comes of it. An outside brain with his level of expertise might be able to solve this.

[FMiguelez]

I have had some truly bizarre behavior — more than once over the last 20 years. Every time it has turned out to be corrupt audio. There's a studio that sends me crap files so I know to look for them when things act up.

Agreed. It's either that, or DP looking for some kind of file related to control surfaces or plugins (and not finding or finding a duplicate and not knowing what to do, except for crashing, according to Console) .
When it happens -and it happens seemingly randomly- the project becomes corrupted and there's a 90% chance you won't get it to open again.

Honestly, I'd expect DP to be able to deal with those 2 common crash causes automatically and smartly.

Shouldn't it be smart enough to, instead of crashing and refusing to open a file, detect that there are problems with the audio files and offer the user to rewrite all headers and then open the damned thing normally?
Shouldn't it at least inform you of such problems in a readable proprietary crash report?

Same thing for when it gets confused with the damn Mackie or other control surfaces, and/or plugin system files. Shouldn't it tell you what the problem is, and a few options on how to proceed instead of crashing? (i.e., actually TRYING out both locations it sees as conflicting or ask which one to use).

Those full cold crashes that tell you nothing about what went wrong (when it's so bad you don't even get DP's Crash reporter) feel like a slap in the face, especially when you're working at 3 am trying to beat a deadline

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I think we may need to just let Jim go.

Well, Jim might go, but the continued comments actually can serve a very good purpose (to some extent).

People are adding observations and experiences from when they have been at the end of their ropes - and fixed it.

The bottom line here (IMO) is that Jim's experience, while shared to some degree with other members, is definitely not the experience the vast majority of users are seeing. If it were, MOTU would go the way of Opcode and Atari. The follow up suggestions might not fall on Jim's ears. but they may well help someone in the future (or may have already helped someone, for all we know).

Also, I have no doubt the problem is in Jim's system. A completely clean install of the OS (including ALL user prefs, third party apps, etc.) and/or a new machine clean install will not yield the same results. There is sometime in HIS system that is creating the problem.

On my own system, WiFi doesn't work. If it's on, Bluetooth connections, as well as other processes, will start to fail. Intermittently at first, then worse and worse until I turn off WiFi, reboot and clean caches, reset PRAM, etc. and then all is fine (just no WiFi). I'm hard wired to a CAT5 so that doesn't matter. Booting from a new, clean install disc solves the WiFi problem. As with Jim, there's something in my user folder (and now my boot folder... grrrrr) that is causing the failure. I've been on hour long calls with top tier Apple support folks and while we can get WiFi working, we couldn't while my main User profile is active (and now not at all even in a guest user account).

I have yet, however, had a program fail as badly as Jim describes where I can't fix the issue. It's always a software conflict (anyone remember Conflict Catcher? lol).

So while I am sorry for Jim, there ARE steps he can take to remedy the situation completely. It'll just take a few days to do (and maybe a little money for a new boot drive) but there IS a fix, however extreme. Apparently, he doesn't want to or can't take that step. His call, of course. I am not so easily dissuaded. If I lose access to critical programs, I lose income. Besides, if DP is crashing as he describes and it is a conflict, there's a good chance it will show up elsewhere in the future with other apps because the conflict has not been resolved.

I wonder if he has ever scanned his machine for a virus?

Pulled all his hardware (USB, FW, TB, etc)?

Are the drivers for that hardware up today an uncorrupted?

Hmmm... Well, I'm sorry he's gone.

[Michael Canavan]

I'm one of those people that make a living with DP. Stable as a rock here.

When I worked at MOTU I never met a problem that couldn't be solved or worked around. There is no such thing as a "random crash".

I really wanted to help Jim and offered to work with him off-line. I understand that for some people they reach a point where it's not worth their time to suss what's going wrong. But I firmly believe that there is always a solution and a logical path to that solution (besides using Logic )

Jim, if you read this, my offer of help remains open.

Dave

Apparently Jim has options he's not taking.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Too bad. MagicD offering personal assistance is amazing. I’d jump on it if I were Jimmy.