Wanted: advice on kybd w/electronic sounds in an orch piece

[joelfriedman]

Hi,

I am starting composition on a commission for a double concerto (viola, cello, chamber orchestra) being premiered next March. I want to augment my acoustic palette with some electronics from the pianist doubling on a keyboard (some use of samples to augment percussion etc., some use of more electronic synth sounds, including some EDM-like sounds). I have not done this before, and it is not my forte, but it is absolutely necessary for this piece. So the question is: what's the best, most “idiot-proof” way of doing this (for both me and well as future performers)? As an example, I will be having the string soloists use guitar pedals for the last movement that requires electronics (reverbs, distortion, tuning, delay): once we all know the pedal, it is pretty idiot proof. So instead of using Max or laptops it’s… Pedals.

I will not be working with cutting edge new music ensembles on this project, so I have to assume the pianists will not be a tech wizards with their own rigs, and resident sound engineers, but pianists playing in the orchestra. That’s part of why I want to make this simple and “idiot-proof.”

I know there were issues with John Adams’ works in the 1990's when he used specific hardware - keyboards/synths - that went out of production and in some cases the patches were no longer readily available. I’m not sure how that has been solved for current times.

I’m guessing there are 3 possible routes:
1. hardware 1: What Adams did, a keyboard with a sound module and an amp (I guess you send the keyboard with score and parts)
2. Hardware 2: someone suggested buying a current hardware sampler (!), load the sounds needed, and using that with a keyboard controller and an amp (I guess you send the controller with score and parts)
3. Software, a laptop, and a controller and an amp. Maybe using Kontakt in stand-alone mode since it’s pretty common?
4. Someone recently suggested I look at MainStage. I don’t know it, but are there benefits to that?

I’m not looking for complex, real-time changing effects that would require IRCAM-like knowledge and programming, as I do not have that. I’m looking for KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).

Does anyone have any thoughts: directions to explore, specific pieces of hardware or software, sources/people to speak with?

Thanks,

Joel

[stubbsonic]

I'd suggest either Kontakt or Mainstage. Either of those options would allow an ensemble to use basically any MIDI controller-- you'd have to determine whether 61 keys, 76 keys, or 88 keys are required for the piece.

Kontakt is more expensive, but has quite a few features for playing samples, and for some synthesis.

Mainstage is inexpensive, and in some ways more full featured than Kontakt. It has lots of effects, synths, and configurability. However, the sampler within MainStage, I think it's called EXS24, is pretty long in the tooth and not that easy to work with in terms of the GUI. That said, once you get the sounds all put together, the end user just has to load it and they are ready to go.

I want to warn you that trying to get distortion on a violin might be tricky. The amounts of gain required for distortion, will cause nightmarish feedback.

[HCMarkus]

If you are going to use your MacBook Pro in the show, MainStage is the way to go as a host. As Stubbs noted, it comes with a variety of VIs on board; you can use it to host other VIs as may be necessary.

https://decrypto.net/mainstage-for-musi ... ng-started

You don't necessarily need an audio interface if you are willing to risk using the audio out jack on your Mac and your keyboard has USB out.

[stubbsonic]

Another nice feature about MainStage is the wonderful "Sculpture" VI. Also, Alchemy is pretty popular.

[joelfriedman]

Thanks for all the advice so far. Stubbsonic: I'd only hope to get the distortion etc. through a guitar pedal, not by volume, so it would all be controlled (I hope).

I'm getting the feeling there isn't a "consensus way" to do this. Like I said, I'm leery of investing in hardware (a specific synth, although I could always ship it with the parts), and I'm a bit thrown with the idea of a hardware sampler, as while self-contained (unit to kybd to amp) that too can get really obsolete fast (not to mention they are NOT cheap!).

Until I chose my rut wise-unwisely I can't really even say which "sampled percussion," or "harp," or which synths for pads or EDM, or... whatever I'll end up using. So it's frustrating. Chicken and the egg. And then there's the whole issue of what if an update cuts out a sample library or a type of synth I'm using? Then I have to figure out replacements. If I created my own sounds I'd obviously have more control and safety with that, but I don't do that, and I'm taking commercial sounds and editing/altering them would not count as being legal.

HCMarkus I'll take a look at your link (MainStage).

Any other ideas are greatly appreciated.

Best,

Joel

[stubbsonic]

The way a guitar pedal does distortion is crank the gain of the input by a SEVERE amount, and run it through a distortion/overdrive stage which clips the signal in a desired way. Whether the volume is gotten from a pedal or some other process, it will still feedback. There are some ways around this, but just know that you will have to address this problem.

If you pick MainStage:

PROS:
1. Versatile- lots of sound and configuration options
2. Easily Portable- you can move your project files to other systems easily
and easy for the end user
3. Easily accessed- you can always find a mac laptop that'll run it
4. Inexpensive software
5. It'll do what you need, and more

CONS:
1. Learning curve for setting things up is a little steep. It's kind of complex.
2. Sampler itself is powerful, but a bit tedious to work with.
3. Not a complete solution. Requires either a USB compatible MIDI controller, or a MIDI Controller along with a USB MIDI interface.

At $30, it is the bargain of the century.

[joelfriedman]

Hi, so the premiere was postponed, along with everything in our lives. I never got to actually try out the keyboard situation. Meanwhile I wanted to keep exploring things for next season. Evidently it's looking like MainStage and I may have some help on the "programing the concert" end of things, but I have a specific question for everyone:

I need a Skrillex-type bass sound (see Scary Sprites). I know people have created them in NI Massive, there are tutorials I can follow, but I want to avoid using non-MS instruments, The question is: is there a way of building an instrument like this from within MainStage? I haven't found anything yet to show me how, but it seems like what I need are a bunch of oscillators that I can detune and filter. I don't know if they will have access to something like Massive, so I'm trying to keep everything "native" in MS (pun intended).

Best,

Joel