Finale question

[MIDI Life Crisis]

This was sent to me via a PM but is better addressed in the forum:

“As you'd mentioned recently moving back to Finale, I thought I'd ask a general question: I've been able to limp along with Quickscribe for years, but need to up my manuscripting game. It seems to be a big step backwards in workflow to have to buy a program, only to have it fire off its own sounds --after years of amassing a nice palette of orchestral libraries-- but more importantly, the fact that it seems to be a one-way street from sequencing to going into finale or Sib. Am I missing something here?”

Have at it, kids.

[mikehalloran]

Nothing forces the user of a notation app to export the sound files. I never do. I’ll assign a few VIs to get an idea of the sound but I don’t try to make a performance from Finale. Most of my composer friends, OTOH, try to craft everything in Finale or Sibelius and never export to a DAW—wouldn’t know how to use one.

The notation camp wants those apps to be full DAWs while the DAW users want notation to be perfect and flexible. Must be difficult because no app has been able to please both sides—despite the constant posting of armchair experts who just know how easy it must be to write.

MOTU is recommending that export be via MusicXML since DP 9. Since MakeMusic owns that technology, it’s a pretty good idea.

I recently mastered a project done in Sibelius. The composer disliked the included VIs as did I. Since DP can’t import MusicXML and there was no editing—these were finished compositions that just needed better sounding instruments, I imported the .xml into Notion and we assigned the VIs there. In a word: Fast! (Faster than doing the same in Finale). Notion’s strings and most winds sound very good. Pulling up Kontakt, Aria, SampleTank and UVI for additional instruments was really easy. Notion’s mixer to pan and tweak balance, likewise, very easy. Well worth the $79 crossgrade.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

You can use ANY VI in Finale. You don't have to use the Finale sounds. I think exporting a sound file does have to use the Finale sounds but I also dislike the Finale sounds. For me, F is a notation program, not a production for audio program. If I'm not going to print, I'll use DP. If I need to print scores for live musicians I'll use Finale.

With the loss of the movie window I've been forced to find a workable solution as the Finale solution totally sucks my... well, you know what.

So I'm currently composing in DP, then transcribing (not exporting a stupid MIDI file or XML). I transcribe and enter notes in Finale much faster than messing with quantizing and fixing stuff. Besides, I write much better when I can see the notes in an actual score.

I know i'm in the minority here, in that I don't try to make mockups that sound real. I'm fortunate in that my clients trust me enough that they don't need to hear my scores until the orchestra plays them at a session or in a performance. After 50 years composing if they don't trust what I'm going to write I don't trust what they're going to deliver. Yeah, I'm $poiled.

[dreamuse]

Mike, I think you put it perfectly, in terms of the two different camps. Hey, I know: How about DP just makes Quickscribe awesome, and everyone wins!

There are indeed times I'll manually enter things as it's indeed quicker than trying to untangle DP's attempt. Still, while Quickscribe has a long way to go obviously, the fact that everything's right there, be it hearing all other parts play (including non orchestral instrument), having the sounds we already have, and can go back and forth and tweak in DP realm is preferable. Kind of like having everything in the box with audio. Oh well...life's a bitch if I'm bitching about this, right?

And yea, MIDI Life Crisis: With the saying "there's no such thing as a demo anymore" holding just about everywhere, you're indeed not only talented, but lucky.

[Phil O]

I don't do a lot of work with VI's, but I was a copyist for a composer for a number of years. I used VIs just for demo purposes so I didn't have to be too fussy with the final product. What Mike H describes was what I found to be the best workflow, except with a slight variation. I export MIDI files from Finale and simply drag the MIDI file to the TO in DP. This will even name the tracks for you. Very fast.

BTW, get familiar with the routing in Finale if you want to hear sounds from there. It's not exactly intuitive. In order to use VIs from other software make sure you have Play Finale Through Audio Units selected, which will be in a different menu depending on which version of Finale you have.

Phil

[artfarm1]

It’s pretty hard to beat “NotePerformer” when used in your notation program if you want to hear an excellent representation of your music.

Once it's set up, you can focus on the music...not having to worry about stuff that is best left to a DAW.

Check it out.

[dreamuse]

Yea, NotePerformer looks pretty cool.

Um...not to start a flame war, but a birdy or 2 mentioned that Sibelius is IN GENERAL a bit more straightforward. Has that been the experience of this group?

At this point, I'm not doing big scores, but rather doling out parts to a few players at a time. So whichever program can get legible parts out more quickly (which hopefully also means intuitively) would be the better one for yours truly.

[FMiguelez]

Um...not to start a flame war, but a birdy or 2 mentioned that Sibelius is IN GENERAL a bit more straightforward. Has that been the experience of this group?

More "straight forward" relative to what?
According to whom?
Ask 10 people and you'll get 16 answers.

I suggest you stop listening to biased people's opinions and decide for yourself.
Watch a couple of good video-turorials about Finale and some about Sibelius. That would give you a great feel for what to expect from them, and what it takes to make them work. You get to see workflows and the good and the bad from each, so you can make an informed decision (and you can try them out for free for some time... at least you can with Finale for sure).

Personally, I love Finale. You have many methods of entering notes. This could not possibly be any easier...

Obviously, you'll get basically the same results with either of them, just like you can make any production in any major DAW.
These days all major DAWs, Notation apps and sample libraries are all amazing and full of features. The difference seems to be mostly about workflow and idiosyncrasies. We just need to decide which one fits best into our productions according to our own preferences from the choices.

[artfarm1]

Flame wars?...haha...I've started a few!
FYIW:

Having used both Sibelius and Finale (and have even dabbled in Notion)... I did get started in Finale.

Then switched to Sibelius...then back to Finale....then Sibelius...

And now, back to Finale and wanting to be real fluid on it like I was in Sibelius. I'm even liking 'Simple Entry' with MIDI keyboard, as I got started that way and even Sibelius had that same kind of entry behavior away back in the old days until a few years ago.

Whatever the 'grey cells' respond to. (ie: 'duration then pitch', or, 'pitch then duration' when you enter notes. One or the other becomes a kind of 'muscle memory')

They both work fine. (..Notion is good for some things, but very limiting and kind of frustrating if you're used to any of the other two.)

I'm appreciating Finale now due to the pure output on the printed page and the flexibility of being able to really control your fonts and look of your music. Once it's set up the way you like, it's easy to make changes.

And for jazz chords, it's the best.

*Realize that they really are 'notation' programs at heart. Don't ever expect one or the other to behave like a full-fledge DAW. That seems like an effort in wasted time and much frustration. Life's too short.