Chinese Opera anyone?

[dix]

Any Chinese Opera buffs here?

I'm working on a project with a short cue that needs to quickly invoke the vibe of Sichuan Opera (it involves a quick sequence in Chengdu China, famous for Sichuan Opera). I'm pretty familiar with Chinese instruments and have a basic feel for (or at least awareness of) traditional Chinese arrangements. There's plenty of YouTube videos of Sichuan Operas being performed in Chengdu, but I'm wondering if a classic piece exists that instantly invokes "Sichuan Opera" (in quotation marks)?

Also, if anyone would care to help me understand better the difference between Sichuan Opera and other forms of Chinese Opera, in terms of music, I'd appreciate it. The project is for a Chinese audience and the client will call me out if I don't get it right.

Thanks!

[mhschmieder]

Although ethnomusicology and music history are my specialties, my knowledge is still fairly shallow when it comes to East Asia, other than knowing a bit about the instruments themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sichuan_opera

The Wiki page above is a good place to start though, for your particular questions. It seems to answer a few of them and provide hints on how to search for answers to the others, which in turn may help you track down good examples to listen to and watch.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I want to answer this but I fear my answer will not be helpful. I also read that Wiki page, Mark. It reminded me of when I was an accompanist for Martha Graham. Teachers would ask us for all sorts of styles. One (Pearl Lang) would occasionally ask for "Chinese Opera." Most accompanists interpreted that to mean lots of parallel 5th's and 4th's. That is clearly how the movie industry has portrayed it. One clever (and super pianist, the late Clifford Bowen who preceded me as Company Pianist, once responded to her request with: Which Dynasty? I almost responded to this thread with the same question, and it's really not far off base.

As a theater, dance, and especially as a silent film composer, I have to represent all sorts of ethnicities and time periods (past, present and future). My approach is to listen to a fair amount of the style in question, then regurgitate it into notes which make sense TO ME. If the client doesn't like it, I'll change it. My only caveat is that I also go out of my way not to be too much "on the money." It is not, after all, a Chinese opera I'm writing. It is a contemporary "something or another." In the case of ethnic groups, I also avoid cliche representations.

All that said, here's a "Chinese" piece I wrote for the NFPF several years ago. It streams (free) from their site as do many other films I scored for them.

https://www.filmpreservation.org/preser ... china-1919#

I doubt that will beef any help, but that's how I would approach it.

[dix]

Thanks for chiming in mh! Naturally that wikipedia article was the first thing I found, but you're posting made me dive a little deeper into it and check out the archived links, which have a lot more info, including thumbnail overviews of the different Chinese Opera style - there's lots!. One of the pages refers to the "Gao Qian melodic system" used in Sichuan opera. By chance do you know anything about this?..internet searches are not at all helping me.

Also, that wiki article refers to a muqin, and says it's a type of erhu, but I don't think that's right (the link in the article goes to the wrong page). Are you familiar with that instrument?

Thanks again!

[dix]

I want to answer this but I fear my answer will not be helpful. I also read that Wiki page, Mark. It reminded me of when I was an accompanist for Martha Graham. Teachers would ask us for all sorts of styles. One (Pearl Lang) would occasionally ask for "Chinese Opera." Most accompanists interpreted that to mean lots of parallel 5th's and 4th's. That is clearly how the movie industry has portrayed it. One clever (and super pianist, the late Clifford Bowen who preceded me as Company Pianist, once responded to her request with: Which Dynasty? I almost responded to this thread with the same question, and it's really not far off base.

As a theater, dance, and especially as a silent film composer, I have to represent all sorts of ethnicities and time periods (past, present and future). My approach is to listen to a fair amount of the style in question, then regurgitate it into notes which make sense TO ME. If the client doesn't like it, I'll change it. My only caveat is that I also go out of my way not to be too much "on the money." It is not, after all, a Chinese opera I'm writing. It is a contemporary "something or another." In the case of ethnic groups, I also avoid cliche representations.

All that said, here's a "Chinese" piece I wrote for the NFPF several years ago. It streams (free) from their site as do many other films I scored for them.

https://www.filmpreservation.org/preser ... china-1919#

I doubt that will beef any help, but that's how I would approach it.

Very nice piece MLC! ...I've actually done a fair amount of composing for this same Chinese client and have gotten away with, as you say, not being too on the money, and merging Chinese styles with western. Often what I think sounds cliche and pandering, is just fine with them.

However, this particular cue needs to be more on the money. It's for an installation in Chengdu where Sichuan Opera, with the vibe I want to invoke, is everywhere (I'm told - haven't been yet). I may be approaching it wrong. Maybe just composing the appropriate style will be enough. I was hoping there was a Chinese Carmen or La boheme, I could quote, but maybe there isn't one...apparently there's thousands of these operas

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Even if there were western works based on that I doubt you’d recognize it if you were familiar with the authentic style. There are probably some tricky ways of faking it based on the videos you found. Essentially you’re looking for a way to provide “source” music. Perhaps just using actual source music is the best solution. It just seems unrealistic that you’re gonna create a convincing version of an art form with a tradition going back centuries without some serious research and practice, not to mention nailing down the VIs to replicate the instrumentation.

[dix]

Even if there were western works based on that I doubt you’d recognize it if you were familiar with the authentic style. There are probably some tricky ways of faking it based on the videos you found. Essentially you’re looking for a way to provide “source” music. Perhaps just using actual source music is the best solution. It just seems unrealistic that you’re gonna create a convincing version of an art form with a tradition going back centuries without some serious research and practice, not to mention nailing down the VIs to replicate the instrumentation.

But I only need to do it for a few seconds. 30 at the most. I think I can create one referencing videos as you suggest, but which one? Also, I'd like to use the melody elsewhere in the piece in nontraditional ways as a motif if possible...again there may not be a quintessential Sichuan Opera melody. It may just be a matter of instrumentation, modes and vibes. So far the client hasn't been able to make a suggestion

The last similar project I did the client requested I use a traditional, classic melody and provided an example. I'd never heard it before but everyone I met in China knew it like you and I know Beatles songs. ...it's here. again short. in this case they only cared about the melody. everything else i was able to change and play with http://prayforrain.com/misc/MMIH-Excerpt.m4v

Thanks for your input MLC

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Well, one more suggestion, and one that is overlooked by composers another artists in a collaborative work. Ask the the guy? You might approach it as a "you know so much more than I do" kind of thing, and if you're concerned he does know more and will call you on it, why not call him on it first?

Ignorance is not a sin, just something to be cured.

[mhschmieder]

I won't have access to my personal research notes and such, until I am home later tonight. I will be sure to check them at that time. Mostly, I may be of some help in figuring out some of the instruments.

As chance would have it though, I have a good friend who is from China via Taiwan and who is into ALL sorts of music (including Chinese Opera), and so there may be some resources I can call upon once I have the right questions to ask him.

I occasionally accompany his local musician friends here, in impromptu gatherings and have to be a quick study on how to play bass appropriately in genres that are unknown to me, some of which are associated with Chinese Opera.

George has studied the classical traditions of both hemispheres and often surprises me with his depth of knowledge. Also, another musician friend in his (and by extension my own) circle, actually studied ethnomusicology formally at the PhD level and married a Chinese woman who is/was an opera singer, so had added impetus at that point to deepen his knowledge in that area.

Whenever I ask people's time in this way, I like to first clear away as many of the cobwebs as I can on my own, so I will first see how much I can answer from my own notes, and then will contact my friend.

Michael's recommendations are excellent regardless -- especially in the context of the expected length and application of the music to be written and/or curated.

[dix]

@MLC. The Chinese client is actually the client of my client and in China (and on vacation currently). Communication is convoluted at best. But yeah. I'm in the process of trying to extract that type of info. They're actually quite cool about this stuff. In the mean time I need to present something.

@MH. Thank you very much! Your friends sound like academic overkill for this little thing, but It could turn into a gig for them possibly if he too is in the Bay Area. I'm hoping this will get recorded with live instruments. There's a Chinese ensemble that I've worked with here called Melody of China, but (even I can tell) Chinese Opera isn't their bag - they're folkier. I was going to ask them to advise and recommend players in the Bay Area. ...especially singers, which it looks like you may know. that's one of the instrument libraries i do not have. only some crappy phrases.

Thanks again y'all

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Maybe MOTU can create a Chinese opera plugin for DP11...

[dix]

Maybe MOTU can create a Chinese opera plugin for DP11...

You , but the Chinese ain't goin' away

[MIDI Life Crisis]

We better stop of we'll be deep into politics and I'll get in trouble... again! Of course, now the only thing I can think of is kung pao chicken! Thanks a lot!

[mikehalloran]

The little bit I've been exposed to featured erhus, high pitched percussion and a lot of cymbals. The singers performed over that.



The erhu plays long melodic lines as the fingers move up and down the string. No frets or fingerboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhic2cE57iM

[mikehalloran]

Anyway, shouldn’t be a difficult synth patch.

If you need VIs, UVI World Suite has Er hu and many others.
https://www.uvi.net/world-suite

As does Garrittan
https://www.garritan.com/products/world ... enefits-2/