Crossfading soundbites- Automatic?

[bivouacrecording]

Hello!

I have been a long time DP owner (DP4!) but am coming back to DP 9.52 after a long time with PT and am just getting used to the tiny details.

I have a question about crossfades. When you drag 2 soundbites to the sequence window, overlap them (by say, 5 seconds) and crossfade within 5 seconds (and without trimming the edges) I get a blue outline meaning the crossfade cannot be calculated.


However, when I trim both edges of the soundbites and overlap, it gives me a crossfade (no blue lines). Am I right in assuming that DP does not automatically create crossfades with two soundbites that are overlapping and not trimmed? Do I need to trim the edges of ALL my soundbites before making crossfades?

I tried not trimming and making a post crossfade (pressing alt) but it does not apply a valid crossfade (blue outline) to the soundbites.


Thanks for your help.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Not sure about your answer about overlapping, but I have ALWAYS used separate tracks for crossfades. Not only do I NOT get errors, but I can adjust each side of the fades independently to fine tune it.

[FMiguelez]

Do I need to trim the edges of ALL my soundbites before making crossfades?

I don't think that's the way it should be at all. Why should one do that extra unnecessary step?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Do I need to trim the edges of ALL my soundbites before making crossfades?

I don't think that's the way it should be at all. Why should one do that extra unnecessary step?

Because that's the way the app was programmed? Asking for a friend.

[bivouacrecording]

Yes I know the separate track fade too. I just need to make things more efficient for this particular project with alot of soundbites with precise fades and this would help a lot if I didn't need to trim each one just to apply a crossfade. I just want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything before getting on with it.

Overlapping meaning putting the end of one soundbite over another on the same track.

Thanks!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I just never do that. I like to see what I'm doing...

[FMiguelez]

Do I need to trim the edges of ALL my soundbites before making crossfades?

I don't think that's the way it should be at all. Why should one do that extra unnecessary step?

Because that's the way the app was programmed? Asking for a friend.

Precisely. If that's indeed an unnecessary step (what's the point of it?), and if efficiency is important for MOTU engineers, this is something they should correct (if it turns out this is how it really is and not just some other issue with the OP system).

It just makes no sense to have to trim edges first and then be able to cross-fade. It should not matter if the crossfading is in one track or 2 tracks.

IIRC, there are key command combinations that allow us to manipulate both sides of the crossfade, as well as being able to trim either SB, even if part of it is not visible.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

It would never have occurred to me. The old timey composer in me still wants to see the individual sounds for processing. The other way seems "sloppy" to me, but perhaps my editing needs are different. In fact, I'm sure they are.

The thing that I always find fascinating about modern day composers is that they'll seem to be in a hurry to get things done. I like to think I'm creating "art" and fine art takes time and care. Zooming across a transition between soundbites in one fell swoop seems a little sloppy, and of you don't mind my saying so (even if you do) a little lazy, if not just plain old rushed. Eff that! lol

I understand the dilemma of deadlines all too well, and I guess I'm fortunate in that when I am scoring a project, there's alway plenty of time to get it done. I should add that I NEVER engineer any but my own recordings. If I was a "studio for hire" I can see wanting to get the crap outta my ears as fast as possible. But for my own music, I can't hear it too much.

And I love working slow, but of course, that costs extra.

[bayswater]

Hello!

I have been a long time DP owner (DP4!) but am coming back to DP 9.52 after a long time with PT and am just getting used to the tiny details.

I have a question about crossfades. When you drag 2 soundbites to the sequence window, overlap them (by say, 5 seconds) and crossfade within 5 seconds (and without trimming the edges) I get a blue outline meaning the crossfade cannot be calculated.


However, when I trim both edges of the soundbites and overlap, it gives me a crossfade (no blue lines). Am I right in assuming that DP does not automatically create crossfades with two soundbites that are overlapping and not trimmed? Do I need to trim the edges of ALL my soundbites before making crossfades?

I tried not trimming and making a post crossfade (pressing alt) but it does not apply a valid crossfade (blue outline) to the soundbites.


Thanks for your help.

I don't understand what you're seeing. When I have two soundbites that overlap on a track, if one of them is selected, and I press "control-F", a fade dialog appears. Pressing OK places a crossfade symbol on the intersection of the two soundbites which I can then adjust. Is that not what is happening on your project?

[bivouacrecording]

I can do that too but it has a blue outline which means it cannot be calculated (doesn't work). So what you hear is that the second soundbite does not crossfade with the first one it just starts playing all of a sudden when the wiper gets to it.

This only happens to me when the soundbites are untrimmed.

[bayswater]

I can do that too but it has a blue outline which means it cannot be calculated (doesn't work). So what you hear is that the second soundbite does not crossfade with the first one it just starts playing all of a sudden when the wiper gets to it.

I don't recall this ever happening. No blue outline here after it processes. I'll try it out again tomorrow. Sound like you're getting a fade on one bite and not a cross fade between two. As if the bites are not actually overlapping. Or you have the dialog in Independent mode with an instant ramp up selected on the second bite?

[Phil O]

I can do that too but it has a blue outline which means it cannot be calculated (doesn't work).

From page 610 of the manual:

If, for some reason, a fade or crossfade doesn’t have enough audio for Digital Performer to compute the complete fade, it appears bright blue. For example, you might draw a crossfade that is two seconds long, but one of the soundbites involved may not have a full extra second of audio in the parent audio file beyond the edge of the soundbite. In this case, the crossfade appears bright blue to indicate that it cannot be fully computed.

The problem is not that you have to trim the soundbite. The problem is that you are asking for it to fade over a portion where there is only one soundbite's material. If you constrain your fade to the time span where both soundbites exist (and that includes a portion of the soundbite that's not visible if you trimmed it) there should be no problem.

Also, note that the manual says, "compute the complete fade." Not that it "cannot be calculated." Your fade will work just fine, it just can't fade material that isn't there (you'll just be fading one of the two for a portion of the fade), and DP outlines it in blue to warn you that some material under the fade is non-existent. This just makes sense. It can't possibly work any other way.

Bottom line, if you have material from both soundbites within the bounds of the fade, you won't get the blue line.

BTW, I've tested and confirmed this. The fade works exactly as you would expect it to when there is a blue outline. You're just missing the part of the fade where sound doesn't exist (as you would expect it to). In essence you are crossfading one soundbite with silence for that portion of the crossfade.

Phil

[mikehalloran]

Phil beat me to the punch — and brought up the manual.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

If, for some reason, a fade or crossfade doesn’t have enough audio for Digital Performer to compute the complete fade...

Phil

Yet another good reason to use multiple tracks. Seriously, one track editing like this really seems dumb to me, but what do I know...

[Phil O]

Yet another good reason to use multiple tracks. Seriously, one track editing like this really seems dumb to me...

I tend to agree with this. There are only rare occasions when I use crossfades in DP. For punch-ins, copy/paste operations, basic slicing and dicing, etc. I zoom way in and carefully adjust seams to line up with a zero crossing. It's usually an easy point to find and it always sounds good. For long crossfades (say 500ms or longer) I use MLC's technique. I just find it easier to get it exactly as I want. YMMV

Phil