"Transfer" a free improvisation into notation, need advice

[foorere]

Friends,
I have done music, a quite long piece, for a large chamber orchestra. For the most I have used the piano as the reference sound, and my goal was to create what would be a form of an acoustical "particello": all music ideas are there, but it is not yet orchestrated/notated. (example of written particello would be: http://www.omifacsimiles.com/brochures/ ... sy_pre.jpg

The facts:
1. all recorded improvisations are totally free (free of tempo, measures, beats...)
2. the tempo in DP is fixed at q=120
3. the time signature in DP is fixed at 4/4
4. this whole pre-material I wish to print out prior orchestrating/notating
5. the final orchestration/notation process is done on paper with pencil

Now, as it is the "rawest" material possible, I want to solve the problem of quantisation and beats, not necessarily solving it just in DP. Perhaps I could print the cluttered score as it is and than manually go through the material.
I am thinking if there is any approach to make this process easier. For instance, quick phrases or ornaments usually appear as a cluster when opened in Finale, or even in the QuickScribe Editor. Somehow it is easier to understand the MIDI Editor than notation.

Some thoughts, but not tested:
1. print out the MIDI editor
2. Print out the Notation Editor
3. doubling the length of the notes in order to get more clear notation output
4. Acoustically/audibly deciphering the tempo&beats, than using printed 1. and 2. with a ruler translate it into notation (on paper w/pencil).
5. Working in DP to fix tediously each tempo/beat/measure/time.signature change (=quantisation), to get more correct notation output.
6. ANY OTHER IDEAS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE, even the crazy one - please shoot!

Many thanks.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I've done a ton of work like that and for me, the best route is to TRANSCRIBE the performance by ear into a notation program. I use Finale 2014.5. I've always found that the fastest ad most accurate way. Trying to make the existing MIDI file fit into a notation program may well be a beast.

I don't take my improvisation as the gold standard of the finished piece. Transcription allows refinement and development. Not that improv can be exquisite. I make much of my living improving for silent film, dance, theater, etc., and have done so for over four decades, so please know how much I value that art form.

You might go ahead and print out the existing file "as is" for occasional reference, but again, I'd transcribe is by ear. At least, that's how I would do it.

[foorere]

Wow, thank you. That is what I actually believed to be the path in my case as well. And I trust you since you have --

and have done so for over four decades

-- more experience in that.

Transcription allows refinement and development.

A wonderful statement!

I have always composed my music out of improvisations (last 20 years). But it is during the last decade I use a sequencer instead of audio recordings (and yes, I was notating down audio improvisations, and I don't have the perfect pitch).
I don't know how complex your music is, but mine is, as a reference I could say, something like mixture of Messiaen/Takemitsu/Scelsi/Boulez... well, not so easy to notate by ear, but possible. That's why I now believe that re-writing improvisation by ear into a musical score, from MIDI recording, is the way, since I have done so before. However, now I have some 'facit' in form of pitch and time, so I was confused.

Of course anyone else is welcome to contribute with own opinions and ideas!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Then I would suggest you set your goal on being able to transcribe you improvisation from memory. I know, that sounds difficult, and it can be, but it is possible. Not that every improv needs to be transcribed. When I am working on a piece I will improv until I find the themes, moods, etc., that i want, then play it again, refining as I go along. When I do this using DP, for example, I might have as many as 80-90 takes before the work is glued into my brain. Once the piece is somewhat "set" I begin the notation process. I won't have to listen to the work. I've learned it. Then all that's left is to notate it. As stated before, during that process I refine and usually economize the score into a more structured form.

That skill need not take years to develop. It's a matter of having a fertile imagination and a great memory. And a little weed never hurt...

[stubbsonic]

Just to throw in another angle, there are some ways in DP that you can work with the beats and adapt what is there in MIDI (before exporting).

And development and revision can happen in the MIDI editor after (and while) you are working with beats.

I've always done tempo maps to audio, and not MIDI. But I'm fairly certain there are people here who have done this within DP. Depending on the content it might not be as time consuming as you expect.

[mikehalloran]

The reason for notation is so that others can play your composition. I agree with the advice given so far—transcribe your own works.

Writers edit; more composers should.

As for MIDI import and quantization, I have always found Finale the worst–probably because it is more accurate. Encore, as bad as it is for so many other tasks, is almost ok for MIDI import—it seems to guess better. No notation program changes what you really played into what you think was played.

Fixing the MIDI in DP and using MusicXML export to your notation app of choice is another way to edit. Not being one who has ever improvised on a keyboard, I’ve only done it for others. One still has to edit the notation and Finale is great for that.

[foorere]

Thank you all. All your inputs are wonderful.

Then I would suggest you set your goal on being able to transcribe you improvisation from memory.

Yes, perhaps. But it is more complex than I can remember exactly in order to write from the memory directly. Yes, some melodies I can remember perfectly, including harmony (usually in a key, fixed signature etc), but this one I couldn't, since it was more than so-easy:

TWhen I am working on a piece I will improv until I find the themes, moods, etc., that i want, then play it again, refining as I go along. When I do this using DP, for example, I might have as many as 80-90 takes before the work is glued into my brain. Once the piece is somewhat "set" I begin the notation process.

Yes, so I have been working last, maybe 15, years. The example above, just for the choral part I had about 200 takes.

Earlier I have used "one try" improvisation recording on tape. Oh, that wonderful analog time...

Just to throw in another angle, there are some ways in DP that you can work with the beats and adapt what is there in MIDI (before exporting).

That I have done, but now in the piece I am working on it is more than beat mapping. Numerous ornaments, free tempo improvisations etc.. I am exploring what else the long-time users of DP (and sequencers in general) can have in mind.