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Hey guys, once in awhile I need to add an acoustic bass VI for a session in a jazz setting. Can anyone recommend a good one , thanks

Nothing even comes close to beating the one from Vienna Symphonic Library.

Don't confuse it with their symphonic double bass library, which likewise is offered as a single.

I bought this one when it came out, so was eligible for the initially-private Jazz Drums. I no longer use those as it's too much work even though many aspects (especially snare brush nuances) still beat all competition, but the Upright Bass library works just as well with other drum libraries and live instruments.

Here is my top-down ranking of acoustic bass libraries, with brief descriptions or qualifiers:

Vienna Instruments
Ample Bass Upright — missing hip-shot low notes
Acoustic Samples AkousKontr (Falcon) — German — missing hip-shot low notes
Acoustic Samples AS Free Collection: Kontr (Falcon) — German — missing hip-shot low notes
Miroslav Philharmonik (SampleTank) — German — missing hip-shot low notes
Orange Tree Samples CoreBass: Pear (Kontakt)
Native Instruments Cuba (Kontakt)
Bardstown Audio The Bass (Kontakt)
Acoustic Samples The Upright (Falcon) — Chinese — missing hip-shot low notes
Straight Ahead! Bass (Kontakt)
Spectrasonics Trilian (esp. Ac 2 - Full Range Character/Clean/Warm)
D. Smolken Rubner Double Bass (Kontakt) — 1958 Otto Rubner Double Bass (tuned in fifths)
Quantum Leap Goliath (Play)
Kontakt: Bass

As you can see, the fatal flaw of nearly all of these libraries is that they don't go below the "E", and most top-notch players in jazz and orchestral music use a hip-shot extender to go at least a bit below that as needed.

OTS Pear has the most variety of any, but is long in the tooth and in dire need of an update for more sampling depth and more coverage overall. It's the only one I know though that works great for jump swing.

I'll never understand why people like Trilian -- every single patch sounds electric to me (even with heavy editing at my end). I think the mic choice and/or placement was bad and/or there's too much piezo pickup in the sound (I prefer NONE). Trilian to me sounds like an amplified upright; kind of like recording an acoustic guitar through its piezo pickup vs. using an actual mic.

The only libraries I recommend are the ones from OTS Pear on up. Those all have good recorded sound and a fair amount of flexibility, albeit with caveats that mostly are listed in my notes.

I exclusively use Vienna though, as I find with proper compression and EQ techniques that it sounds the most natural and even in the final mix even if it sometimes sounds a bit woofy when unprocessed and soloed. By far the deepest and woodiest sound, so it was probably recorded the best, and in part that may be due to the anechoic recording room that VSL uses.

The thing about VSL Upright Bass is that it has all the articulations you'll need, but sounds good even if you stick to one articulation either at the mock-up stage or even in final production. It has by far the most realistic handling of the range of pizzicato to portato or legato playing styles, as well as the widest usable dynamic range.

Out of the box though, Ample Bass and AkousKontr sure sound great, and the latest version of Miroslav surprised me by how good its jazz bass is, since it's part of a large collection vs. a standalone instrument. If they had bothered to record with a hip-shot extended, they'd get used on a lot of projects. Those three are very warm and organic sounding basses.

There are a few others that get pushed heavily at vi-control. I have been unimpressed by the audio samples of those recommended libraries after years of giving them another chance, but as I don't own them it isn't terribly fair to specifically deprecate them. I will simply point out that the forum base is shockingly ignorant of what is available, and full of people who don't do their own personal searches and then take as a mantra what one or two core members (also ignorant of other choices) pushes. Kind of like GS?

BTW if you search on any of the top half dozen or so libs that I mentioned (and for a second opinion, on Trilian as well), you may find some more detailed discussions dating back a year or more. Nothing new has come out in that time, so any such discussion would still be current.

I like:
Ample Bass Upright
Modwheel Lowdown 2
Orange Tree Pear

KG, you actually mentioned one I hadn't heard of yet! I just now did a search for Modwheel Lowdown:

http://www.modwheel.co.nz/the-lowdown-v2

Very interesting -- this library would not be redundant with any of the others, as it includes striking the instrument with mallets, and all sorts of other preparations!

Definitely on my "buy" list, but probably not right now as I've had a of of "surprises" lately.

The overall timbre sounds correct to me though, so it might also serve well as a core bass vs. just being used for special effects.

Lowdown 2 is a little off the beaten path like most of the Modwheel products but imo they are one of the most interesting developers out there.
While not a traditional upright bass have you checked out Sound Dust Cloud Bass? It's really cool!
For me whenever Pendle aka Sound Dust or Modwheel have a release I'm ALL EARS,they are imo 2 of the most innovative developers, they are always doing something different.

btw Sound Dust just released a new FREE plug Grain Space light.

http://dulcitone1884.virb.com/grainstrument-lite

Oh, I thought Sound Dust was a Windows-only vendor, so I've ignored all of their stuff!

mhschmieder wrote:Oh, I thought Sound Dust was a Windows-only vendor, so I've ignored all of their stuff!

No I've been using Sound Dust for a couple of years at least,Sound Dust is real interesting developer. Spitfire likes them so much they even offer The Dust Bundle on the Spitfire site to promote them......

I was momentarily excited by Acoustic Modeling's new SWAM Upright Bass, but then when I came to my senses I took note that it was mostly for classical bowed playing. It does have a pizz setting, but I gather it's high-action orchestral style. For now, they've been mostly concentrating on orchestral instruments, I suspect they'll eventually expand, though. Shame, all their instruments have blown away anything else I have.

Yeah I took SWAM's bass off my list once I learned it isn't set up for jazz playing.

I haven't bought it yet as they never returned my inquiry about a discount for upgrading to the full strings package vs. buying the bass piecemeal. I didn't even care if the price is the same; I prefer the convenience of one updater vs. four. This has helped with the other packages as updates are frequent and time is sparse.

Wow guys, thanks !!!!

mhschmieder wrote:I haven't bought it yet as they never returned my inquiry about a discount for upgrading to the full strings package vs. buying the bass piecemeal. I didn't even care if the price is the same; I prefer the convenience of one updater vs. four. This has helped with the other packages as updates are frequent and time is sparse.

I HIGHLY doubt there will be a difference. I'm pretty sure when you buy the package you get it as 4 different installers/codes. They're a tiny outfit, and they only just released the package discount, so AFAIK it's just a bundle of individual purchases.

Oh, OK. Maybe Sample Modeling were the ones that consolidated licenses once the bundles came out.

In Jazz, the pair Bass / Drums is really important. As you mention with Vienna Upright Bass , what Jazz Drums VI's ( sticks and brushes ) have your preference, since you stop using Vienna Jazz Drums ?

I made my own presets for BFD. I think I made a dozen or so, for starters, to cover periods from the 40's going forward, using different setups for Slingerland vs. Gretsch vs. Ludwig and a few others, with separate brushes and sticks presets. VERY heavily tweaked, but I can share my BFD presets with anyone who wants them. I don't use processing until mix time, like live drums.

In spite of having bought all of the add-ons, including the Zildjian cymbal collections, I continue to find BFD's biggest weaknesses to be either the choice of hi-hats and ride cymbals, or the poor browsing scheme that doesn't remember where you are in the drop-lists, takes too long to scroll (and is jumpy), and has inconsistent naming schemes that make it hard to locate what you actually need.

As a result, I often use the same hi-hat and/or snare and/or primary crash cymbal, for several different kits, varying mostly the kick and tom sets, and usually each of those with at least two different snare choices.

BFD3 offers a lot more snare articulations than previous versions, and this really helps. But it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't have all of the nuances of brush work like Vienna Jazz Drums does. I may return to VSL for the brush-based songs at some point, as a result, as I am using sticks on some songs just because I couldn't get satisfactory brush drums results.

Interestingly, I find the old Jazz 'n' Funk add-on to be my primary source for putting together jazz drums presets in BFD. When I first bought it, I didn't like it, but that was back when I thought I didn't need to put any work into it. By default, most kits aren't tuned and balanced very well. But by now I have a procedure I run through that allows me to quickly set up new presets that work well.

I own most of Superior/EZDrummer as well, as it covers more range, but haven't had time to delve deeply yet. I did use it recently on a harder-hitting number that I wrote, and it was great out of the box, without sounding already-produced or baked-in either.

Straight Ahead bass and Drums make no sense to me. I haven't figured out how to get single hits with them. I don't use audio loops as they don't sound natural when spliced together, stretched, shifted in pitch, etc. I can manipulate MIDI until the cows come home, and get great phrasing out of BFD.

My notes on VSL Jazz Drums aren't with me at the moment. I remember there being some specific weaknesses that meant I would need to combine them with BFD, but can't recall if it was weak in the "head" drums (kick and toms), or whether it had brash cymbals and/or hi-hats. If you're curious, I can look it up in my crib notes once home. They definitely did not put equal attention on the whole kit.

I don't have experience recording live brush drums, except as a single stereo overhead pair for an entire band. Maybe it's necessary to compress. I haven't spent the time to experiment yet. I simply have found it hard to get brush snare to cut through so that it's even noticeable that there are nuances in the articulations.