To create a new profile

[larocheb]

Where do we find information to build new profile. Since nobody seem to want a YAMAHA motif rack profile, I will do my best to learn how to and just do it.

[Synthdance]

Hello, I'm new here.

I've asked the same question to MOTU support some time ago. They said that they use proprietary software to write profiles. Also, there are no plans to release end user version of it.

Regards,

Maciej Repetowski

[SteveDawg]

We REALLY need a way to write our own profiles. I mean, this is rediculous! Hybrid Arts had a user configurable modular editor/librarion almost 20 years ago on the Atari ST. MOTU has not updated profiles in well over a year. New small niche market units will never get a profile written, nor will a lot of less popular vintage units. You would think 20 years of hardware and software advancements would make something this simple common place.

How about:

Rocktron All Access
Rocktron Patchmate
Roland Vk-7
Korg SDD-3300
Roland SDE-1000
+?

I thought computers were suppose to get BETTER!!!!!!!

[Jim]

If you want a good laugh (or cry), read p.7 of the Unisyn manual:

"If there are any profiles you specifically desire, please let us know and we will add it to our list."

Man... that's good comedy!

<small>[ June 13, 2005, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: Jim ]</small>

[rwb]

I totally relate to this problem. Even the old Opcode Galaxy editors would allow a user to create a profile from scratch. I wish MOTU would wake up and make Unisyn more versatile by expanding their profiles selection AND making provision for user created profiles.

<small>[ July 04, 2005, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: rwb ]</small>

[qo]

Harp intro to dream sequence...

I'm afraid MOTU has us over a barrel boys. With so much demand for Unisyn, they can afford to skimp on profiles. My grandmother uses it, as does my priest, as do most of the folks I hang with at the local pub. Every one of them complains about needing this or that profile for this or that vintage synth or offbeat controller. But they put up with it because they realize that MOTU has a corner on the rapidly expanding market for external synths.

If Unisyn weren't selling like hotcakes, I could see MOTU perhaps including their proprietary profile editor on the installation CD to encourage 3rd parties to create profiles; thus fostering a Unisyn community. As it is, with virtually everyone clamoring for this must-have app, MOTU can just sit back and let the profits roll in.

Harp outro to dream sequence... Fade in background sounds of a big city, sirens, bus brakes, etc. Fade from black focusing on disheveled homeless person on bus stop bench as he awakes. Zoom out to reveal glittering skyscrapers in the background adorned with names like Native Instruments and fxpansion :p

[le_tigre]

Originally posted by qo:
Harp intro to dream sequence...
<snip>

goal!

it's offtopicish, but there's always sound quest's midiquest librarian/editor. you can create your own device profiles in the XL version, and even load it as a vst plugin. maybe if enough of us buy, bang and howl, they'll make an audio unit version.

[edit: xl also publishes .midnam files, so your patchname needs are covered.]

<small>[ July 05, 2005, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: le_tigre ]</small>

[RCory]

OTOH, it is possible to create a custom console for your instrument in DP and dump sysex...

[mbrebes]

If you can find an old copy of E-or(the companion editor for X-or on Mac or Atari ST), you can use that to generate profiles, then import them into the newer version of Unisyn.

[Synthdance]

If you can find an old copy of E-or(the companion editor for X-or on Mac or Atari ST), you can use that to generate profiles, then import them into the newer version of Unisyn.

I have sent an email to Emile Tobenfeld asking him if there is a possibility to release EoR as freeware and/or source code either for Atari ST or for Mac. Maybe there is a hope for us, Unisyn owners.

If he agrees, EoR might be used with classic Mac OS to create profiles for Unisyn or with Atari ST emulator like Nostalgia.

Let's keep our fingers crossed...

Hmm, I've just realised that a man behind X-OR is Robert (Bob) Melvin and not Emile Tobenfeld. If anybody have an information on how to contact Bob Melvin this might help us in starting a bright future for Unisyn owners.

Update: I've recieved an email from Emile Tobenfeld. He said that the rights to XoR are beeing held by either Robert Melvin or MOTU. Is there anybody who can help me to contact Bob Melvin on that subject?

Cheers!

Maciej Repetowski
Alpha Centauri UK

[cagedartist]

MOTU owns the rights to X-oR, E-oR and Unisyn. An OS X profile editor for Unisyn 2.x exists, along with the necessary documentation. It's reasonably well-polished and was ready for release when I left MOTU in December of 2004. However, MOTU cannot begin to provide techncial support for the Profile Editor - the learning curve is too steep for most people (even technical support people!). I imagine that makes them disinclined to make it available to the general public.

Perhaps, if you talk to the right person at MOTU (Magic Dave, I would suggest) and demonstrate that you're serious (e.g. by signing their non-disclosure agreement) and that you have some technical aptitude, they'll let you have it - with the understanding that you're entirely on your own.

-Bob

[Synthdance]

Perhaps, if you talk to the right person at MOTU (Magic Dave, I would suggest) and demonstrate that you're serious (e.g. by signing their non-disclosure agreement) and that you have some technical aptitude, they'll let you have it - with the understanding that you're entirely on your own.

-Bob

Thanks for an answer Bob. You have put some light to the whole Unisyn profiles problem.

Well, I've been writing emails to MOTU (Magic Dave) since some time and the answer I've been given is that they do not want to release this app (profile creator) to public. Which is very sad, indeed.

My point is: even if Unisyn is obsolete app now, there is a whole bunch of users who are happy with it as it is now. The only missing thing is profile editor, which (in my opinion) should be included in Unisyn from the VERY beginning. They have had EoR, they could have easily integrated it into Unisyn.

If the app is obsolete (or is going to be obsolete), why not to release that profile editor "as is", without support, for brave users as me and others?

I am in a process of building HARDWARE MIDI studio, my label is into 80's music, hence the need for synths from that era. This is conscious decision, I've managed to buy MOTU Performer 6 and Unisyn 2.0 from UK distributor some time ago. My MIDI machine is G3 Beige 333 Mhz with OS9 and it works like a charm. The majority of synths I own (will own) is supported by Unisyn, but there are 6-7 models which are not.

Performer 6 and Unisyn works together under OS9 in a way that OSX users may only dream about. I am not going to go for Sound Quest (XL version has profile editor), this would make this integration non existant.

I'd rather buy Atari ST and a second-hand copy of XoR and import self-made profiles to Unisyn on Mac - as I've heard that those are compatible.

Don't get me wrong, I love MOTU hardware and software but their approach to Unisyn profiles is quite dissapointing.

Cheers!

Maciej Repetowski
Alpha Centauri UK

[cagedartist]

Well, I've been writing emails to MOTU (Magic Dave) since some time and the answer I've been given is that they do not want to release this app (profile creator) to public.

I'm sorry to hear that! Did you offer to sign a NDA and pledge not to bother anybody with questions? Maybe I could put in a word for you?*

I suspect that tech support fears are driving MOTU's policy - and unfortunately, the fears are well-founded. They know that buggy profiles cause Unisyn to appear buggy, which in turn causes users to call MOTU tech support. Without any profile programmers on staff, they can't provide support for the profile editor. Perhaps they could train their tech support staff to grill Unisyn users who are seeking support, to ensure that they are using only unmodified MOTU profiles.

As for the decision not to ship the profile editor with Unisyn, I think that was probably wise. For every user with technical talent and an accurate sense of their limitations, there are dozens who think they can do anything ...and they're the ones who make the biggest stink when things don't go their way. I don't know if you get the "American Idol" auditions over there, but they illustrate this phenomenon in painfully graphic fashion. Maybe we should have allowed people to download the Profile Editor, but only after they read the manual and pass a test? I'm only half kidding, here.

-Bob

*just noticed that your're using OS 9 and Unisyn 2.0. The 2.0 version of the profile editor was never polished for external release. If MOTU gives you anything, they're going to give you the 2.1 OSX version - and the copy protection might require an authorized copy of 2.1 to run. Ugh!

[Synthdance]

I'm sorry to hear that! Did you offer to sign a NDA and pledge not to bother anybody with questions? Maybe I could put in a word for you?*

If you'd be so kind, I would be very grateful.

Some time ago, I thought that getting NDA for Korg OASYS PCI (to write new synths/FX) was difficult. Well, 2 mails, 1 fax, 3 months of waiting and it was done. And OASYS PCI is obsolete for several years...

Unisyn is in theory still beeing supported/sold and there is no way to sign NDA, MOTU has even removed the page on their site which used to point to forms for becoming a developer. Maybe they don't need any.

I suspect that tech support fears are driving MOTU's policy

Well, I would like to wrote those profiles for myself, without intention to give those to public, so no unexperienced users will suffer from any of my possible mistakes

Maybe we should have allowed people to download the Profile Editor, but only after they read the manual and pass a test? I'm only half kidding, here.

Sound Diver (abandonware now) and MidiQuest XL both allow users to make profiles by their own. Your XoR also allowed that, so it seems that only MOTU is so concerned about that...

*just noticed that your're using OS 9 and Unisyn 2.0. The 2.0 version of the profile editor was never polished for external release. If MOTU gives you anything, they're going to give you the 2.1 OSX version - and the copy protection might require an authorized copy of 2.1 to run. Ugh

No prob. I am using 2 computers in my studio. My audio machine is OSX and my Unisyn copy came with 2 CDs, one for OS9 (2.0) and one for OSX (2.1).

Once again, thanks for all your help. It is somehow exciting to be able to talk with the "father" of Unisyn

Kindest Regards,

Maciej Repetowski
Alpha Centauri UK

[robMartin]

I thought very hard about adding synth param editing to CherryPicker, and actually built various prototypes using Lua, Python, and ObjC plug-ins to provide user scripting/programming to access and manipulate synth params.

My conclusion was: If you're up to the task of writing a profile, you should be able to write a stand-alone editor - it's actually much simpler than conforming to the compromises and long-windedness required within a universal framework.