In Praise of Graphic EQs
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This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
- Prime Mover
- Posts: 2440
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:19 am
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- Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
In Praise of Graphic EQs
I've been a snooty schmuck. I've always poo-poo'd Graphic EQs as being "the idiot's shaping tool", opting more for precision parametric filters. But my boss (who doesn't have much of an audio background) just slayed one of my sound design projects with a graphic EQ that put my favorite para (Waves H-EQ) to shame. Granted, this was an abstract sculpting job, not music, but it did the job better never-the-less.
I tried to reproduce his graphic curve with a para, and it sounded NOTHING alike, and nowhere near as good. For one thing, cuts that spanned many bands were A LOT deeper. Even though he would pull down 4 bands at -3dB, it sounded more like -6 or -9. I realized that because graphic EQs are using many individual filters, they compound pretty drastically, and in very unique unpredictable ways. This isn't probably great for music, but it has a very unique character for sound design projects.
This was just the basic AUGraphicEQ, set to 31 bands. I will be using this more, soon.
I tried to reproduce his graphic curve with a para, and it sounded NOTHING alike, and nowhere near as good. For one thing, cuts that spanned many bands were A LOT deeper. Even though he would pull down 4 bands at -3dB, it sounded more like -6 or -9. I realized that because graphic EQs are using many individual filters, they compound pretty drastically, and in very unique unpredictable ways. This isn't probably great for music, but it has a very unique character for sound design projects.
This was just the basic AUGraphicEQ, set to 31 bands. I will be using this more, soon.
— Eric Barker
Eel House
"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio"
MacPro 1,1 2Ghz 7GB RAM OS 10.6.8 | MacBook Pro 13" i5 1.8Ghz 16GB RAM OS 10.8.2
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Eel House
"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio"
MacPro 1,1 2Ghz 7GB RAM OS 10.6.8 | MacBook Pro 13" i5 1.8Ghz 16GB RAM OS 10.8.2
DP7/8 | Komplete 7 | B4II | Korg Legacy Analog | Waves v9 (various) | Valhalla Room | EWQLSO Gold
MOTU 828mkII | MOTU 8pre | Presonus BlueTube | FMR RNC
Themes: Round is Right and Alloy
Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
I've never looked closely at this plugin and didn't know the number of bands could be set. Thanks for posting this.Prime Mover wrote:This was just the basic AUGraphicEQ, set to 31 bands. I will be using this more, soon.
2018 Mini i7 32G macOS 12.6, DP 11.32, Mixbus 10, Logic 10.7, Scarlett 18i8, MB Air, macOS 14.6.1, DP 11.32, Logic 11
- HCMarkus
- Posts: 10090
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
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Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
An inspiring idea to shake off a stagnant streak.
Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
I use Waves graphic EQ from time to time for subtle lifts and cuts. I just tried this graphic eq from Eventide that I like a lot! It's free until the end of the month, you just need an iLok account to activate it. It's called Equivocate and it sounds pretty smooth and natural to my ears!
https://www.eventideaudio.com/promo/equivocate
https://www.eventideaudio.com/promo/equivocate
Great family and friends!
Mac Studio M2 Max, MacPro 8 core (trashcan), MacBook Pro 16 in 2023, OSX Ventura, DP 11, Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Motu 112D, 24Ao, 8M, 896 MKIII, UA Apollo 16, Waves Horizon, Slate Everything Bundle, Plugin Alliance Bundle, UAD-2 Satellite DSP Accelerator, UAD Apollo Twin.
Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate, Console 1 MKIII w/C1 Fader
"Without struggle, there is no progress"
F. Douglas
Mac Studio M2 Max, MacPro 8 core (trashcan), MacBook Pro 16 in 2023, OSX Ventura, DP 11, Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Motu 112D, 24Ao, 8M, 896 MKIII, UA Apollo 16, Waves Horizon, Slate Everything Bundle, Plugin Alliance Bundle, UAD-2 Satellite DSP Accelerator, UAD Apollo Twin.
Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate, Console 1 MKIII w/C1 Fader
"Without struggle, there is no progress"
F. Douglas
Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
Hello,
That's why I sometimes use the 8 band para EQ in DP. It allows both shaping and fixing audio problems. Graphic EQ's can be problematic depending on it's design / programming.
That's why I sometimes use the 8 band para EQ in DP. It allows both shaping and fixing audio problems. Graphic EQ's can be problematic depending on it's design / programming.
It's the ear, not the gear!
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MacPro 2.66 gHz 12 core - OSX 10.12 - Genesys Black - Lynx Aurora16 - waves - Oxford - McDSP - 16 trk Otari - analog sweetness
MacPro 2.66 gHz 12 core (dp 10.01) - Lynx Aurora16 - OS 10.12.6/WaveArts/TruePianos - Legend 32ch console - G16 Fostex
(2) MacPro 2.66 gHz 12 core (DP 9.5) OS 10.12 - 24 I/O - 2408 mk2 - Da7- (PT 12) - 8 trk MCI
MacPro 2.66 gHz 12 core - OSX 10.12 - Genesys Black - Lynx Aurora16 - waves - Oxford - McDSP - 16 trk Otari - analog sweetness
- philbrown
- Posts: 2366
- Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Almost Mexico
Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
Thanks Kwiz!kwiz wrote:I use Waves graphic EQ from time to time for subtle lifts and cuts. I just tried this graphic eq from Eventide that I like a lot! It's free until the end of the month, you just need an iLok account to activate it. It's called Equivocate and it sounds pretty smooth and natural to my ears!
https://www.eventideaudio.com/promo/equivocate
I use Waves, API (by UA) and SPL graphics from time to time. Good tools for the toolbox. The 31 band Waves 'Modern' version is interesting as it smooths the adjacent bands with something they call 'flat top' EQ - I think that's how they describe it. Can't find a good pic to post which would explain it a lot better.
2020 iMac 27" 3.6GHz 10 core i9 • Mac OS 12.2.1 • DP 11.04 • UAD-8 Octo card • Midas M32R
Plugs: UAD•Slate•Scuffham•Flux IRCAM•NI Komplete•Klanghelm•Waves•Spectrasonics•Arturia•Soundtoys•Nomad Factory•PSP•Stillwell•Cytomic•Korg•Five12•GForce
Plugs: UAD•Slate•Scuffham•Flux IRCAM•NI Komplete•Klanghelm•Waves•Spectrasonics•Arturia•Soundtoys•Nomad Factory•PSP•Stillwell•Cytomic•Korg•Five12•GForce
Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
No problem Phil!philbrown wrote:Thanks Kwiz!kwiz wrote:I use Waves graphic EQ from time to time for subtle lifts and cuts. I just tried this graphic eq from Eventide that I like a lot! It's free until the end of the month, you just need an iLok account to activate it. It's called Equivocate and it sounds pretty smooth and natural to my ears!
https://www.eventideaudio.com/promo/equivocate
I use Waves, API (by UA) and SPL graphics from time to time. Good tools for the toolbox. The 31 band Waves 'Modern' version is interesting as it smooths the adjacent bands with something they call 'flat top' EQ - I think that's how they describe it. Can't find a good pic to post which would explain it a lot better.
Yes, I use the Waves as well but since getting Equivocate, thats now been my go to graphic EQ. It's actually paragraphic which makes it more flexible, as well as the ability to solo bands, match eq other sources, and also has auto output mode! Right now I'm only using on 2 track mixes but I might start using it on busses as well!
Great family and friends!
Mac Studio M2 Max, MacPro 8 core (trashcan), MacBook Pro 16 in 2023, OSX Ventura, DP 11, Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Motu 112D, 24Ao, 8M, 896 MKIII, UA Apollo 16, Waves Horizon, Slate Everything Bundle, Plugin Alliance Bundle, UAD-2 Satellite DSP Accelerator, UAD Apollo Twin.
Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate, Console 1 MKIII w/C1 Fader
"Without struggle, there is no progress"
F. Douglas
Mac Studio M2 Max, MacPro 8 core (trashcan), MacBook Pro 16 in 2023, OSX Ventura, DP 11, Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Motu 112D, 24Ao, 8M, 896 MKIII, UA Apollo 16, Waves Horizon, Slate Everything Bundle, Plugin Alliance Bundle, UAD-2 Satellite DSP Accelerator, UAD Apollo Twin.
Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate, Console 1 MKIII w/C1 Fader
"Without struggle, there is no progress"
F. Douglas
- Shooshie
- Posts: 19820
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Dallas
- Contact:
Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
I have a couple graphic EQ plugins. I just don't use them. Once in a while I get this urge to try things like that, but with those? Each time, I'm so happy to get back to parametric EQs. But if they float your boat, happy sailing!
Shoosh
Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
- daniel.sneed
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:01 pm
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Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
Happy sailing here too with deep parametric eqs, such as Motu MW EQ.
Just guessing around: Imagine something a graphic eq may do, which a parametric eq could not?
Just guessing around: Imagine something a graphic eq may do, which a parametric eq could not?
dAn Shakin' all over!
DP11.33, OS12.7.6, MacBookPro-i7
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DP11.33, OS12.7.6, MacBookPro-i7
Falcon, Kontakt, Ozone, RX, Unisum, Michelangelo, Sparkverb
Waldorf Iridium & STVC & Blofeld, Kemper Profiler Stage, EWIusb, Mixface
JBL4326+4312sub, Behringer X32rack
Many mandolins, banjos, guitars, flutes, melodions, xylos, kalimbas...
Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
The Eventide EQ is paragraphic. you should give it a try while it's still free.
Great family and friends!
Mac Studio M2 Max, MacPro 8 core (trashcan), MacBook Pro 16 in 2023, OSX Ventura, DP 11, Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Motu 112D, 24Ao, 8M, 896 MKIII, UA Apollo 16, Waves Horizon, Slate Everything Bundle, Plugin Alliance Bundle, UAD-2 Satellite DSP Accelerator, UAD Apollo Twin.
Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate, Console 1 MKIII w/C1 Fader
"Without struggle, there is no progress"
F. Douglas
Mac Studio M2 Max, MacPro 8 core (trashcan), MacBook Pro 16 in 2023, OSX Ventura, DP 11, Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Motu 112D, 24Ao, 8M, 896 MKIII, UA Apollo 16, Waves Horizon, Slate Everything Bundle, Plugin Alliance Bundle, UAD-2 Satellite DSP Accelerator, UAD Apollo Twin.
Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate, Console 1 MKIII w/C1 Fader
"Without struggle, there is no progress"
F. Douglas
- Prime Mover
- Posts: 2440
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:19 am
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
Thanks Phil! Great Find!
The thing about GraphicEQs is they're messy and weird, and sometimes that's not a bad thing. Unlike parametric, which are mathematically very simple—a few filters to do big cuts—GraphicEQs all all these tight little non-linear phase filters working together, so they pretty drastically change the shape of the sound. And they LIE worse than a car salesman running for office: two 3dB filters right next to each other doesn't make a nice even plateau, between them is gonna be a weird pseudo-bell-shaped rise or dip, depending upon the geometry of the filters (which you'll never know), put a bunch of them together in a line, like you're apt to do, and they're gonna make for some gnarly sonic stuff, even before we get into phase discretion. The reality is, you apply a bunch of 3dB filters, and you're going to get some MAJOR changes. I A/B'd a "shelf-like" LP cut on a gEQ to a seemingly similar paraEQ with the same shelf, and the graphic EQ was WAY more pronounced, and the paraEQ was subtle.
So yeah, I wouldn't ever use them on subtle, "transparent" type of work, but just like any other effect, sometimes they end up being the right type of "glue" for the job.
Oh, and don't even think of automating them, that would just be stupid.
The thing about GraphicEQs is they're messy and weird, and sometimes that's not a bad thing. Unlike parametric, which are mathematically very simple—a few filters to do big cuts—GraphicEQs all all these tight little non-linear phase filters working together, so they pretty drastically change the shape of the sound. And they LIE worse than a car salesman running for office: two 3dB filters right next to each other doesn't make a nice even plateau, between them is gonna be a weird pseudo-bell-shaped rise or dip, depending upon the geometry of the filters (which you'll never know), put a bunch of them together in a line, like you're apt to do, and they're gonna make for some gnarly sonic stuff, even before we get into phase discretion. The reality is, you apply a bunch of 3dB filters, and you're going to get some MAJOR changes. I A/B'd a "shelf-like" LP cut on a gEQ to a seemingly similar paraEQ with the same shelf, and the graphic EQ was WAY more pronounced, and the paraEQ was subtle.
So yeah, I wouldn't ever use them on subtle, "transparent" type of work, but just like any other effect, sometimes they end up being the right type of "glue" for the job.
Oh, and don't even think of automating them, that would just be stupid.
— Eric Barker
Eel House
"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio"
MacPro 1,1 2Ghz 7GB RAM OS 10.6.8 | MacBook Pro 13" i5 1.8Ghz 16GB RAM OS 10.8.2
DP7/8 | Komplete 7 | B4II | Korg Legacy Analog | Waves v9 (various) | Valhalla Room | EWQLSO Gold
MOTU 828mkII | MOTU 8pre | Presonus BlueTube | FMR RNC
Themes: Round is Right and Alloy
Eel House
"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio"
MacPro 1,1 2Ghz 7GB RAM OS 10.6.8 | MacBook Pro 13" i5 1.8Ghz 16GB RAM OS 10.8.2
DP7/8 | Komplete 7 | B4II | Korg Legacy Analog | Waves v9 (various) | Valhalla Room | EWQLSO Gold
MOTU 828mkII | MOTU 8pre | Presonus BlueTube | FMR RNC
Themes: Round is Right and Alloy
- philbrown
- Posts: 2366
- Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Almost Mexico
Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
I think it's Kwiz you were wanting to thank.Prime Mover wrote:Thanks Phil! Great Find!
2020 iMac 27" 3.6GHz 10 core i9 • Mac OS 12.2.1 • DP 11.04 • UAD-8 Octo card • Midas M32R
Plugs: UAD•Slate•Scuffham•Flux IRCAM•NI Komplete•Klanghelm•Waves•Spectrasonics•Arturia•Soundtoys•Nomad Factory•PSP•Stillwell•Cytomic•Korg•Five12•GForce
Plugs: UAD•Slate•Scuffham•Flux IRCAM•NI Komplete•Klanghelm•Waves•Spectrasonics•Arturia•Soundtoys•Nomad Factory•PSP•Stillwell•Cytomic•Korg•Five12•GForce
-
- Posts: 599
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Re: In Praise of Graphic EQs
What did George Martin and (later) Todd Rungren teach us? Screw the book! If it sounds good - do it. "I don't care if I have to hit the console with a hammer to get the sound I want" - Todd Rungren
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