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I hate having temp music in a film I'm going to score. It's not because it clouds my judgement on the scene but because some directors get too attached to it. Anything I write that sounds similar only in tone and feeling ends up being too different, and anything I write that is very close to it ends up being just different enough to throw them off.

I hate it, and this is admittedly a rant. However, I'm curious how some of you handle it.

PoliticalBonobo wrote:I hate having temp music in a film I'm going to score. It's not because it clouds my judgement on the scene but because some directors get too attached to it. Anything I write that sounds similar only in tone and feeling ends up being too different, and anything I write that is very close to it ends up being just different enough to throw them off.

I hate it, and this is admittedly a rant. However, I'm curious how some of you handle it.

Two thoughts:

Have the director listen to your score as many times as possible! Remind him or her that repeated listening tends to increase appreciation. (Or bitter hatred, but let's not go there! )
Have him get input on your score from people who are not familiar with the temp music.

Stanley Kubrick went with the temp music, witness Alex North's 2001 score:

http://www.slashfilm.com/original-2001-score/

Not encouraging, I know, but sometimes a director's initial impulses are the best. I'm assuming North got paid anyway.

I hate short sighted directors (and others...). I think one reason I live scoring silent films is that the directors are dead. They're so much easier to work with in that condition.

Gives new meaning to "deadlines."

cuttime wrote:Stanley Kubrick went with the temp music, witness Alex North's 2001 score:

http://www.slashfilm.com/original-2001-score/

Not encouraging, I know, but sometimes a director's initial impulses are the best. I'm assuming North got paid anyway.

I was wondering about that. What's weird was Kubrick saying the score was "completely inadequate for the film."

That North's score sounded astonishing to me, and I still think that film would have made its mark, culturally.

The choice to use those other pieces did give the film a bit of the "Fantasia Effect"- where the music has its own associations, then there's a little bit of push/pull that adds an element of depth.

I've had film makers provide temp tracks, and if they do work well, I will lean toward them. It is sad because there are other directions I'd prefer, but sometimes I just want to get the project out without taking risks (where the pay wouldn't warrant that kind of risk taking). My favorite projects give me lots of room. I've done music for dance, where I score the dance that has already been finished, and that is a treat.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I hate short sighted directors (and others...). I think one reason I live scoring silent films is that the directors are dead. They're so much easier to work with in that condition.

Maybe I should find some of those directors...

cuttime wrote:Stanley Kubrick went with the temp music, witness Alex North's 2001 score:

http://www.slashfilm.com/original-2001-score/

Not encouraging, I know, but sometimes a director's initial impulses are the best. I'm assuming North got paid anyway.

In my opinion, this is setting the composer up for failure. Hans Zimmer told a similar story about how the director had Adagio For Strings as temp music. Hans worked on it for weeks till he finally said "Are you trying to kill me??".

There's no way in hell we're ever going to compete with some of the best music ever recorded.

HCMarkus wrote: Have him get input on your score from people who are not familiar with the temp music.

I like that idea, although it seems tricky to ask for that in a tactful manner. "You don't know what you're doing, would you mind getting another opinion?"

Directors like temp music because it's familiar; normally they've chosen it for that reason. Producers generally hate it because it's often so expensive.

If directors had their way, "I Feel Good" would be in every movie. I can only guess that it's a lot more costly than "Don't Stop Believing" which is now used so often that, on some films, I wonder when it will show up. not if.

I would ask an associate or executive producer how much the temp music would cost to use. That should get the bug into the producer's ear that it's time for the director to start listening to yours.

Choose your battles. 2001 is a good example. If the director is leaning towards J. Strauss II, that strategy will backfire since his works are PD. R. Strauss, however, is still under copyright.

My advise would be to NOT let temp music kill you, PB!

Really. You need to readjust your attitude unless you want to find yourself trying to swim against the tide and encounter frustration constantly until you end up hating what you love now> your music.

Instead, embrace it and take it as a challenge where you will learn to identify what is it about the temp music that the director reacts to and loves.
It's very often all in the pacing and how the music builds/evolves emotionally. That can be your frame, your base upon which you build the rest. The trick is to duplicate the emotion map while still being original.
IME, that always hits home closer with the stubborn directors than simply mindlessly battling against the temp trying to copy it VS not copying it. Focus on the emotional lifts. You have a million ways to achieve that. Find yours.

Another thing that IME has worked, is to, in addition to the cue they expect, also give them something completely different than what they're expecting (if you have the stamina and time to do it - if this doesn't work, you can always use that music for something else). Sometimes, if you have a good idea, they will change direction and love this music and approach and end up using it, along with all the advantages that this would bring.

It's not easy. It can be fatiguing and frustrating battling the not-close-enough VS originality thing. But whether you like it or not, it's part of the business and it happens even to the biggest names in the industry, so you need to make friends with it.

Get used to it, and find a way to use it to your favour, unless you want to limit yourself working with directors/producers who don't use temp music. Good luck with that.

However, there ARE limits! Temp scores as reference? Ok, no prob. Explicit Sound-alikes???? FORGET it! I don't do those anymore.
I did for a long time, and after many frustrations and bad experiences, I just realised it's not worth it>
You end up carrying all liability in case of a (very likely) law suit, and you are simply being used as a slave because they are too cheap to buy the original license, so they want to pay some poor slob a fraction of that price to do the same, often under unreal deadlines, and the slob composer puts his career on the line for pennies.
NEVER do those. Not unless they write in the contract that THEY, not you, are fully responsible in case of law action against you. Good luck convincing them to put that clause in the contract!

Yeah, the directors I worked with are all dead now too, but weren't at the time I was working with them.

I count myself blessed that I had such good relations, trust, and confidence. I never had to fear the 2001 scenario happening to me.

I'm going to click that link when I get home though, because I want to hear how the "other" music sounded. I really detest that film (and most sci-fi).

Scoring silent films has always been of interest to me, but I've never gotten around to it, and the ones I would most want to do have already by now been done so well by others.

I have to admit that being busy isn't the only reasons I haven't sought new directors in the past 3 years since my main director's tragic passing. Indeed, I have a fear of being trapped by the "temp" music. So I will be reading this thread with intense interest, hoping to learn from others.

mikehalloran wrote:Producers generally hate it because it's often so expensive...

2001 is a good example. If the director is leaning towards J. Strauss II, that strategy will backfire since his works are PD. R. Strauss, however, is still under copyright.

And then there's this from the always reliable [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_S ... oundtrack)[/url] (not!):

Ligeti's Lux Aeterna and an electronically altered form of his Aventures, the last of which was so used without Ligeti's permission and is not listed in the film's credits.[5]

I've heard that a judge allowed Ligeti $250.00 (no, I didn't drop any zeros!!!) and that's all he got for the use of "Lux Aeterna."

I have additional comments about that, but Mr Steel would surely throw me off the board for sure. Here's an excerpt of my analysis...

%&$*(%&$*($)%&*(#)$&%*$(#&%*$#%&$*)%&$*%&$#*%&)($#%#...ck! (and I DON'T mean Louis!)

Speaking of silent films, this is what I'm working on now:

https://www.catalinamuseum.org/silent-film-benefit

Our own Frankmax will be on woodwinds, and one couldn't ask for a finer player or a nicer person to work with. We're gonna have some fun!

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
And then there's this from the always reliable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_S ... oundtrack) (not!):

Ligeti's Lux Aeterna and an electronically altered form of his Aventures, the last of which was so used without Ligeti's permission and is not listed in the film's credits.[5]

I've heard that a judge allowed Ligeti $250.00 (no, I didn't drop any zeros!!!) and that's all he got for the use of "Lux Aeterna." ..

I believe the amount.
And then, there's this:

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news ... rs-w474441

Shearer filed a $125 million lawsuit against Vivendi – the company that owns This Is Spinal Tap – for financial misappropriation and launched a website called Fairness Rocks explaining his lawsuit. He alleged that the company says the four creators between them have only earned $81 in merchandizing income and $98 for their contributions to the movie's soundtrack over a 22-year period.

FMiguelez wrote:My advise would be to NOT let temp music kill you, PB!

Instead, embrace it and take it as a challenge where you will learn to identify what is it about the temp music that the director reacts to and loves.

Get used to it, and find a way to use it to your favour, unless you want to limit yourself working with directors/producers who don't use temp music. Good luck with that.
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Excellent advice, FM. I'm printing your response.

I really like the idea of doing a second "me" version, if time permits. I think the frustration I ran into this weekend was because I started out with the "me" version and had it rejected by the director. I'll just keep that version on the back burner and turn it into a full song when this project is over.