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I took a break after my last album and haven't been in DP for a year or so. Kept up with the upgrades, and now find myself using 9.12 (64 bit mode) and thinking "Wow, this thing sucks!"

It crashes on a regular basis, I have a bug with...something I'm not sure about...where the hardware system resets itself, performance is actually worse than in previous versions...

Is it just me? It's been a few years now since DP 9 came out, and on the one hand I'd hope for DP10 to fix these problems, on the other I worry it will just make more.

And I'm also starting to wonder about MOTU's viability. I'm not seeing anywhere near the kinds of updates and development that I saw in the past, and I wonder if the company is still solid.

I see these crashes and find myself wondering if I shouldn't be switching to Logic or another DAW (I'd say ProTools, but Avid seems to be doing poorly as well).

Thoughts?

I have to move this to the OT forum. This really isn't a specific troubleshooting post, but more of a general impressions and speculation of MOTU's future, etc.

jschussler wrote:I took a break after my last album and haven't been in DP for a year or so. Kept up with the upgrades, and now find myself using 9.12 (64 bit mode) and thinking "Wow, this thing sucks!"

It crashes on a regular basis, I have a bug with...something I'm not sure about...where the hardware system resets itself, performance is actually worse than in previous versions...

Is it just me? It's been a few years now since DP 9 came out, and on the one hand I'd hope for DP10 to fix these problems, on the other I worry it will just make more.

And I'm also starting to wonder about MOTU's viability. I'm not seeing anywhere near the kinds of updates and development that I saw in the past, and I wonder if the company is still solid.

I see these crashes and find myself wondering if I shouldn't be switching to Logic or another DAW (I'd say ProTools, but Avid seems to be doing poorly as well).

Thoughts?

Been there done that.
Started using Performer around 1.0 in 86, jumped back in with DP at 2.11 in 96.
In 2000 I decided an issue with repeat where one of the audio files would not sound etc. was enough, switched to Logic. Logic was rock solid until 7.0, was using Live mainly at that time upgraded to DP5.
Couldn't gel with it really, but at DP7 it clicked.

I've played with other DAWs, DP is no worse stability wise and ALL of them go through a "rough" phase where a large percentage of power users, ( i.e. people who post online in dedicated forums ), have similar issues and start in on the doom and gloom routine. Don't get me wrong, it's entirely possible an issue is impossible to figure out, and should have been caught by the developer, but when not everyone has issues then it must be acknowledged that it's probably due to some combination of hardware or an errant plug in.

I say this because plenty of people here have issues with DP 9.12, but I do not. I have a little over 200 plugins from dozens of developers, but my guess is I don't have the ones that are causing issues. I own maybe 3 Waves products and do not run Vienna Ensemble Pro for instance, two things a lot of DP users do that I do not. I run a couple dozen heavy CPU pig plug ins, on 24 tracks or less mostly.

So far with 9.12 the big difference NextGen PreGen does to my set up is this: When nothing is record enabled it runs very smoothly. When I have record enabled armed etc. say a MIDI track for Maschine, one for keys for Kontakt, and one for a soft synth, the CPU jumps around heavily and hits the red, but it rarely causes an audible glitch. When I was using Logic 7.0 some people had zero issues with Logic, I had issues right off the bat with Live 8.0 and declined to instal 8 until everyone else stopped complaining mostly.

Basically there's nothing inherently wrong with MOTU and DP, every major change has possible issues, and some get caught, others do not. That will be the same with Cubase, Logic, Live, Studio One etc. etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a casual user who considers changing lightly. I've been using DP since before it had the D in front of the P, and have produced 5 albums in it. But I've never had a version that caused me so much trouble before. And I feel like as I look out at the landscape of DAWs, I don't see the kind of presence from MOTU that used to be there, and that others are racing ahead much faster. That concerns me.

Like I say, though, could just be me. That's why I'm interested to hear what others have to say on the subject.

Having moved from 8.07 under Mountain Lion (rock solid) to 9.12 under Sierra, I can confirm things are not quite as stable as they were, but my overall impression is still positive. The reduced latency when using VIs is a big plus, and MOTU has advised 9.13 is in the works to address, among other things, the mousing issues when working in the pitch layer within the sequence editor.

DP is still doing the job for me.

I have experienced a few crashes in 9.12, but not in 9.02, so I usually track in 9.02 and mix in 9.12. (I don't mind the occasional crash while mixing, but it is disastrous when it happens in front of a client while tracking.) The two versions seem to coexist without any problem. I eagerly await 9.13. Hopefully, it will address stability. Keep your fingers crossed.

Phil

9.02 here as well. 9.12 is, in fact, a little "shaky."

jschussler wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm not a casual user who considers changing lightly. I've been using DP since before it had the D in front of the P, and have produced 5 albums in it. But I've never had a version that caused me so much trouble before. And I feel like as I look out at the landscape of DAWs, I don't see the kind of presence from MOTU that used to be there, and that others are racing ahead much faster. That concerns me.

Like I say, though, could just be me. That's why I'm interested to hear what others have to say on the subject.

I think all the work MOTU has put into DP since Apple bought Logic is a testimony to DP's longevity. If there was any time to worry about DP being abandoned by MOTU, IMO it would have been when it took them longer to get to OSX than Cubase, Reason, Live, Logic etc. I couldn't see any valid reason for them to stop now, and if you're worried because DP9 has been out forever, then realize it took four years for Live to go from version 8 to 9, and that was because of bugs introduced integrating Max MSP into Live, coupled with some of their lead developers quitting and forming direct competition in Bitwig Studio.

No, it isn't unstable. Your machine is messed up.

It runs great on a clean, barely-screwed-with OSX.

One thing to consider is whether your template is a carryover from DP version 5 or other, now ancient, version. I rebuilt my template at DP8 and have ported it to DP9.12 without issue.

So, I see so far that some people say DP 9.12 is unusually unstable.

Others say it is usually unstable.

Others, still, say it is stable as heck.

In other words - YMMV! [EDIT]"Your Mileage May Vary")

Seriously, though:[/EDIT]
(It has never crashed for me in the Windows version - knock wood! So, I fall into the unusually stable camp.)

Terry

terrybritton wrote: Others say it is usually unstable.

If you think that's what I'm saying (I'm the only one saying anything that could be taken like that), let me clarify.

All DAWs have issues sometimes, all DAWs sometimes crash. You can get lucky and have every audio and MIDI driver, every plug in you own work well with your DAW, but 99% of the time if a DAW crashes it's due to some errant driver or plug in. DAW manufacturers can do things to prevent this from happening, but it's going to happen at some time. Occasionally a DAW will have new code in an updated version that conflicts with VST or AU spec, but it's IMO more likely that a plug in conflicts than a DAW. Simply because if you're like a lot of use you have dozens of developers plug ins in your VST folder.

I've always gravitated on OSX anyway towards DAWs that have a reputation for stability, Reason, Logic, Live and DP, but all of them have had an update that either exposed bad code on their part or bad code on a VST or hardware drivers part. I've had MIDI Beat Clock destroyed by Logitech drivers in the past, it's not always audio drivers that are the issue.

Anway, I feel for those affected, it's just not a fair assessment to say DP9.12 is the death of DP, that's all, and I hope an update happens soon that makes most of us happy.

Gravity Jim wrote:No, it isn't unstable. Your machine is messed up.

It runs great on a clean, barely-screwed-with OSX.

And then there's this...

viewtopic.php?p=539386#p539386

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:

Gravity Jim wrote:No, it isn't unstable. Your machine is messed up.

It runs great on a clean, barely-screwed-with OSX.

And then there's this...

viewtopic.php?p=539386#p539386

There's no contradiction there. None of us are noobs to computers. The real issue in any DAW when an update hoses something like CPU use / spikes etc. is incompatible plug ins or audio drivers, and it's almost never audio drivers. In rare cases it can be third party utilities for functions that your DAW also addresses.
Gravity Jim IMO used the loaded term "screwed with", but if you're running third party Finder replacements, drivers for non Apple mice, and loading a DAW with VST/AU's then you're upping the chance that MOTU or any DAW maker will not have tested your particular replacement software, driver or VST/AU. They I'm sure like all DAW and software developers in general test on a bare machine or ten, then beta it with clients that run 'real life' loaded machines. Not every combination of hardware and software is going to be in that beta field, hence releases where some of the audience are hosed and some are fine.
Computers are binary, something works or it doesn't, they're complex enough to where it doesn't look like there's a pattern, but there's always a pattern. 99% of the time with DAW upgrades it's some tweak in code that exposes a badly written plug in, or that itself is badly written, and is exposed by plug ins that access that code. The solution is almost always to disable or at the very least not use that plug in unless you have to.

Michael Canavan wrote:

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:

Gravity Jim wrote:No, it isn't unstable. Your machine is messed up.

It runs great on a clean, barely-screwed-with OSX.

And then there's this...

viewtopic.php?p=539386#p539386

There's no contradiction there. None of us are noobs to computers. The real issue in any DAW when an update hoses something like CPU use / spikes etc. is incompatible plug ins or audio drivers, and it's almost never audio drivers. In rare cases it can be third party utilities for functions that your DAW also addresses.
Gravity Jim IMO used the loaded term "screwed with", but if you're running third party Finder replacements, drivers for non Apple mice, and loading a DAW with VST/AU's then you're upping the chance that MOTU or any DAW maker will not have tested your particular replacement software, driver or VST/AU. They I'm sure like all DAW and software developers in general test on a bare machine or ten, then beta it with clients that run 'real life' loaded machines. Not every combination of hardware and software is going to be in that beta field, hence releases where some of the audience are hosed and some are fine.
Computers are binary, something works or it doesn't, they're complex enough to where it doesn't look like there's a pattern, but there's always a pattern. 99% of the time with DAW upgrades it's some tweak in code that exposes a badly written plug in, or that itself is badly written, and is exposed by plug ins that access that code. The solution is almost always to disable or at the very least not use that plug in unless you have to.

The issue is that for most of us that have issues with 9.12, 9.02 works perfectly fine. Most of these issues are unique to DP as well.

That transcends the idea of it being a hardware or configuration issue. It's a regression in stability and functionality.