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This is for an indie film (<$30k budget). Upfront fee is small (I may have made $3 an hour on this project). The producers want to do work-for-hire and own the copyrights (and hence publisher's share) because they hope to sell to a distributor. I pointed out that this screws me since the fee they're paying is small.
Their counteroffer is to have a conditional offer: if they sell then they'll pay me an amount equal to the first fee.
I still feel like that's a no-go, but I understand that them having all the rights makes it much easier to sell for distribution. Am I being unreasonable and expecting too much from an indie film? Should I settle with my 50% writer's share?

Without specific details it's hard to know what to say. You should retain publishing as it has no impact on distribution. The only possible exception might be if you're going to get extensive PR and artist freedom. But these "buyouts" are total BS unless we're talking at least six figures. IMO. I'd say no and if they want you bad enough they'll capitulate.

Thanks for the advice. I don't expect amazing exposure, but who knows.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote: You should retain publishing as it has no impact on distribution.

Wouldn't I collect publishing royalties from the film being played wherever? The producers seem to think that it's a much better sell to distributors if all the copyrights are theirs to own.

Of course he thinks that. I'd talk to a lawyer if it's worth it. If it's not, it might not be worth your time.

Start reading up on publishing. Always keep your publishing. Dig your heals in tell them to take a hike!

If a low budget film it's easier to negotiate keeping the publishing. You'd need to structure an agreement that gives them the rights to do what they need to do with the film. Usually but not always an exclusive synch license. You need a lawyer. Learn from working with one. Also in the USA performance royalties are not collected for theatrical releases.

Can't disagree with a single word. Thanks for posting that.

Thanks guys. This was a good learning experience. I don't expect this to be a huge money-maker either way, so I'm not quite at the lawyer level yet.

They think it is, that's why they want your publishing!

Wouldn't I collect publishing royalties from the film being played wherever?

No.

Unless it makes it to television, cable, DVD, NetFlix... then yes.

Don't ask which is better. Invest in your education and read both. The downloadable versions let you start reading this evening.

All You Need to Know About the Music Business: Eighth Edition Hardcover by Donald S. Passman
http://www.amazon.com/Need-Know-About-M ... 1451682468

Music Money and Success 7th Edition: The Insider's Guide to Making Money in the Music Business Paperback
by Jeffrey Brabec (Author) , Todd Brabec (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Money-Succe ... 0825673690

Just purchased

mikehalloran wrote:

Wouldn't I collect publishing royalties from the film being played wherever?

No.

Unless it makes it to television, cable, DVD, NetFlix... then yes.

Don't ask which is better. Invest in your education and read both. The downloadable versions let you start reading this evening.

All You Need to Know About the Music Business: Eighth Edition Hardcover by Donald S. Passman
http://www.amazon.com/Need-Know-About-M ... 1451682468

Music Money and Success 7th Edition: The Insider's Guide to Making Money in the Music Business Paperback
by Jeffrey Brabec (Author) , Todd Brabec (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Money-Succe ... 0825673690

Thanks for those.

With all the changes and proposed changes to copyright and Internet, neither book is current but these are as up to date as I can find. When I mentioned this on another forum, one of the Misters Brabec read it and sent me some email with newer info.

In any case, you'll learn a lot for $37. These do not eliminate the need for an attorney but, if your knowledge saves a half hour because you already know the basics, it's money very well spent. You will also have a much better idea of knowing when you do need a lawyer to go to bat for you.

A few years ago I did a movie score and songs. I was first given a contract that would have given them the rights to the songs and score without any guarantee of getting paid. I went to a lawyer and drew up another contract which stated that if I didn't receive payment in a reasonable length of time, I would retain ownership of the music. They eventually signed because they had no choice... by that time it was being shown in Cannes. I am very glad that I got legal help. It sounds pretty fishy that they are asking ownership in order to distribute the film. The film that I did was released and distributed even though they had not signed my contract by that time. In your situation, they can make all the demands they want but in the end you are the person with power over them. If I was in your position, I would just take the money already earned (if you have gotten paid) and retain ownership of your music. If not, then drive a hard bargain with them. If they can't pay you now, chances are they will not be able to in the future. From my experience, very few indie projects ever pan out....