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Just read this on the Finale forum from a knowledgable member...

It's worth pointing out that El Capitan will be the LAST version of OS X to support 32-bit Java 6. That means that 10.12 (released October 2016) will NOT run any software that requires Java 6. This includes all previous versions of Finale (assuming no other incompatibilities would prevent them from working). Also various apps of Adobe's Creative Suite.

And first hand experiences in they regard?

That means Java 6 still works on El Cap.

What is there to experience?

Oh duh! You're right! I guess I should have asked if that was true.

Hmmmm... Masterwriter 2, Finale and Chrome all require Java 6.

This is the link to the version that works in Yosemite and El Capitán.
https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1572?locale=en_US

Let's see… Masterwriter has been updated to v.3, subscription only. It's a glorified thesaurus and rhyming dictionary – I can live without it or install it on my G4, I suppose.

Finale and Chrome will certainly be updated to 64bit Java compatibility by that time, I hope.

Naw... Finale will announce compatibility will be delayed 4 months which will turn into 8 … again!

In more concerned about Adobe crap.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:In more concerned about Adobe crap.

Oh, I see. CS 6 requires JRT 6. Weird as CS 6 is supposed to be 64 bit only.

It will be interesting to see if OS 10.12 really drops JRT 6 support. I should think that would mean the end of 32bit application support also.

We'll see.

Strange. I had read they were dropping it with El Capitan.

Apple's Java 6 was probably their most unstable version; it caused me many a programming nightmare. I was so happy when Oracle finally was handed the keys -- though Apple withheld important stuff and I still haven't found workarounds for a few of them (nor has Oracle).

Nevertheless, there are some major programs that haven't upgraded yet. I've been working overtime for longer than I can remember anymore, leapfrogging to make up for all the wait cycles Apple put us through over the years. So I have little sympathy for companies with large workforces, that charge money for their apps (we don't) and won't bring them up to date.

One of the ones I depend on is Oxygen XML Editor, which requires Java 6 for reasons I cannot comprehend. It's an XML tool kit (including XSLT etc.). Really good tool. They might have even been the ones to cajole Apple into doing a few Java 6 updates long after Apple said they were 1000% done with Java. So, really, I expected Java 6 on Macs to end a few years ago. Yet it continues.

There must be a secret sauce in there somewhere that Apple isn't sharing, for Java 6 to be able to run on El Capitan. There are significant changes to signing, security, and other stuff. We haven't done enough testing on El Cap yet (it's a bit new, you know ) to be able to tell whether Oracle was able to get their version of Java (now at 8u60) compliant with this OS upgrade in time.

This whole drama reminds me of the long-drawn out death of Carbon, with the largest vendors who have the least excuse (e.g. Adobe) being the longest hold-outs on going forward to Cocoa. Many companies get used to not believing Apple when they say they're pulling the plug on something. This gives them a false sense of security, so they drag their heels for years before updating their technology.

In this case though, there's even less excuse, because mostly one just has to spend a little time writing new installers and signers -- and even a tiny outfit like my own manages to pull that off. So when I see a vendor with expensive licensing fees not staying current, I question whether they deserve my money at the next "upgrade" cycle. I've got a few vendors in mind right now that I'm thinking of abandoning or looking into alternatives.

Very glad I didn't buy into MasterWriter. I keep getting bombarded with their emails though.

It's hard to find out what technolgies are involved in apps built as single binaries. I look at package contents all the time out of curiosity. Only when the Qt GUI toolkit is used (not QuickTime; this is the C++-based toolkit formerly owned by Trolltech, then Nokia, before being spun off as Digia), do I see direct evidence. I guess this means most apps are built using Xcode and not as cross-platform?

Anyway, a few days ago, I looked at my Adobe installations once again, as I knew Illustrator uses Java for something. It appears that it ONLY needs the JVM to run the old script-based version of JavaFX -- no relation to the Java-based API version that is part of Java 7 and Java 8. Illustrator supports export as JavaFX 1.1 (I think that's the rev). Pretty sure that's its only Java dependency.

Thing is, Adobe won't be updating CS5 and Make Music won't be updating pre-2014 Finale. I simply won't rent my Adobe software. Finale should have an update but given all that is wrong with El Cap and how much it doesn't add a lot, it's just not worth the headaches.

My SSL console relies on Java 6. I've been installing the special "Legacy" version that still supports it for a while now.

It's one thing for my photoshop not to work, but.. I gotta have my board.. guess I should start lighting the fire under SSL's feet now.