MOTUnation.com

Shooshie wrote:... imagine that if you posted here about a potential bug in DP, you were labeled a conspiracy theorist, and MOTU was "out to get you!"

I don't need to imagine that. I, and others here, have experienced the reciprocal, being called "fanboys" or worse when questioning a "bug" report, defending an aspect of the program or a piece of hardware, or commenting on an aspect of MOTU's business practices that we find feasible but which annoy others (often recent adopters who want DP and MOTU to be just like whatever DAW they were using or imagined a DAW "should be" based on their own beliefs.

While we're fortunate to have a great moderator, these discussions often escalate into name calling and (as you've experienced at eBay) false accusations.

And like you, I've been doing the online thing since Compuserve, PAN, and BBS messaging. It seems nothing has changed but the ease of being uncivil and disrespectful. It gets even more frustrating when the "opposition" is an avatar and made up name.

I can sympathize with the GS experience (and it's why I never joined), but have found "real world" experiences no different.

I am met with complete contempt and ridicule (and incredulousness) for using DP for both audio and MIDI, instead of PT for audio and either Logic or Cubase for MIDI (if not also for audio).

I've had people tell me it's impossible to produce quality recordings with anything but those three programs, due to being the only ones with good summing algorithms or with quality audio processing engines.

I even sometimes have to be quiet about my DP usage (though I never go silent) because it rubs off on whether people can trust my credentials as a software engineer if I'm so stupid and ignorant that I use a toy like DP.

There are only two forums that I participate in, and the other one is rare these days (Music Player Network, associated with three instrument-oriented magazines). In both cases though, I have close friends on the forum -- some pre-dating my membership, but others having been forged through participation on the forum as well as in-person events.

GS is especially painful for me because I know some high-profile people who selflessly give of their time to post helpful information there, and then see the pile-on and wonder how they take it.

I always thought of GS as the Top Gear of audio. Good for amusement, but that's all.

Seems it's hard for DP to get a fair shake over there. I think part of the problem is that once they find this place, many DP users don't frequent GS as often. That may be due in part to the anti-DP vibe of the place.

Part of why MOTUnation may seem a bit more civil is that I really don't care about making this site into a cash cow. Yes, Sweetwater helps out with the banner and their support is important and appreciated, but other than that you won't see ads plastered everywhere or inserted between posts, etc. So I don't really worry about appealing to everyone and I don't base my decisions as to booting someone with an attitude off this site on whether they'll badmouth me or the site and affect the signups, etc. over here.

GS was always a popular first stop for people after they got booted from here. I'm amused by the things that are said about me and this site over there. I stopped reading it or caring a long time ago. I will say that I can count on one hand the number of people I've actually had to kick off the site over all the years (excluding spammers, of course). But to read the posts at GS, you'd think I've kicked off many times that.

A common knock on this site is that we tend to defend MOTU and/or DP zealously. Okay... fair enough. A lot of times I know I get riled up when I see misinformation or ignorance behind the criticisms. You can try all you want to educate people, but some just don't want to hear it. Personally, I do get weary of the posts honing in on one pet feature that another DAW has and then people saying DP is "unusable" or "not professional" because of one particular feature. Doesn't matter that DP has some features other DAWs don't have, like Chunks, for example. Chunks has made DP a major player in running backing tracks for big tours, etc. I can't think of another DAW that has this.

Oh well... I gave up feeling obligated to rush in to defend DP agains the "elitists" as David described them. Or when a new user shows up to this forum with their standard pet feature objection and challenges us to *convince them* why they should use DP. I might play along for a little while, but when it's apparent they're not really open minded, I just say "Hey... use whatever you want then." I think trying so hard to convince someone almost looks needy... like "Oh please, please. like my DAW!" I don't waste my time anymore.

Actually both the big threads on DP9 over there ended withers talking about features and sharing information so alls well...

Mostly there's going to be massive amounts of anecdotal evidence poo poohing whatever DAW gets brought up because of an update on a multi DAW forum like Gearslutz. The same thing happens at KVR. Never really understood why someone would dislike a DAW enough to want to comment on it in update/upgrade threads? but it's obviously a thing.

I can admit to having both sung the praises of Native Instruments and gone on extensive rants about their software, but I somehow think all of us can relate to that.

James Steele wrote:A common knock on this site is that we tend to defend MOTU and/or DP zealously.

When you consider that trolls often leave you little choice, other than to say nothing or agree with their lies, which really isn't a good idea in this age of search engines that can turn up those lies to future seekers, "damage control" might be a better way of describing it.

It's a predictable troll, fun to post at another forum such as Gearslutz: "All I did was tell the truth, that DP is unusable without MIDI Regions like Logic's, and all those MOTUNation fanboy zealots leaped up and defended DP like trained attack dogs!"

15 seconds of fame (or what some perceive of as fame) on the Internet. Pretty pathetic.

So is that "better" than pre-Internet days when we had the mfg claims, ads, and timid a "reviews" in publications where the mfgs advertise?

Actually, I think it is better. We had "word of mouth" before and that counted for a lot. Now we can actually ask people to test and verify claims, or show them how a "missing" feature is really just accomplished in a different way.

But trolls? All you can do is hold their feet to the fire and watch them squeal.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:So is that "better" than pre-Internet days when we had the mfg claims, ads, and timid a "reviews" in publications where the mfgs advertise?

True enough. Reviews in magazines that are also depending on the advertising income from the companies whose products they are reviewing are always suspect. Seems like every one would end with "It may not be right for everyone, but for what it does it's worth taking a look" or some other very safe, non-offensive conclusion.

I suppose that's the opposite of trolling. Lol.

Thank you for the fun read, guys.

I gave up on getting involved in the discussion once I'd collected too many quotes to agree with or respond to in the time I have.

You Unicorns all rock, every last one of you.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Tip toeing? You have feet like me, bro, with viola cases for shoes.

I gotcha tip toe right cheer...!

LOL

Doh! Silly me, Magilla.

OK, I had to fingertip my way around there...

Wouldn't that be "thumb tip"?

Knuckles, actually, but nobody walks on his / her toes either, technically speaking.

That said, Mark, I'm willing to give you the thumbs up, bro'.

I've had this link for ages and only just remembered:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much ... ewbie.html

Enjoy.

monkey man wrote:I've had this link for ages and only just remembered:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much ... ewbie.html

Enjoy.

Thanks for that. # 30 explains a lot. I had always wondered why winged monkeys (no offence) took up residence in my garage about the time I got HR 824s.

monkey man wrote:I've had this link for ages and only just remembered:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much ... ewbie.html

Enjoy.

It's like that old prison joke:

"It is Fred's first day in prison. After spending the morning being processed, he is taken to the huge mess hall for lunch. He finds a seat at a table full of inmates who look like they have been behind bars for years.

Suddenly, an inmate stands in the middle of the room and yells, "41!" As he sits down, the room erupts in laughter. Then another prisoner stands and yells, "123!" Again, there is laughter throughout the room.

Puzzled, Fred asks the inmate sitting next to him what's going on. "Well," the older inmate says, "Most of us have been here so long that we have heard all the jokes. So we just number them and use the number." Fred says, "I love to tell jokes! Give me one." "Okay," says the older inmate. "Everybody loves old 72. It always gets a big laugh"

Fred stands up, waits for the laughter to die down from the last joke, and yells, "72!" There is nothing but silence as hundreds of inmates just turn and stare at him. Fred sits down and looks at the inmate who gave him the number.

"What happened?" he asks. The older man shrugs and says, 'It's all about timing.'"