Delay Plugins

[philbrown]

Hey, I'm just curious about the under-the-hood things that make these delays different, i.e., one better than another.

Setting aside the fact that all delays basically do one thing: i.e., repeat the input-- what are the other kinds of qualities that you look for in a delay?

For example, there are tape & tube saturation emulations which might bandpass and distort the taps and perhaps add some wow. And some offer smear/diffusion to blur transients. Some have various filters. Some offer feedback networks that can add taps to specific taps. And panning, to localize various taps (and taps of taps) in the panorama.

Other factors might include a nice UI, and ability to adjust in a range/resolution that is useful.

But with the sound itself, are there other factors that can be identified-- you know beyond, "warmth" "girth" "air" "shimmer" "sparkle" "envelopment" etc.?

The PSP 42 (and the 85) both have extensive filtering and modulation capabilities and the net result (for me) is they are really good at more 'sound design' stuff, dreamy/spacy/ethereal sounds especially. The Cooper Time Cube is downright strange but I like it for some of the stereo effect it creates. Blue Tubes Oilcan is fairly dirty (in a good way) and blends into a mix differently than a clean delay. UA's Echoplex is cool because it has that sound and flavor and is a familiar sound on guitar (I used a real one back in the day) and also you can manipulate the controls in real time (anyone remember Tommy Bolin on Quadrant 4 by Billy Cobham?) and do all that crazy pitch stuff. There are other tape-delay emulations of course that each offer different flavors just like the original units did (or close).

OTOH, a lot of people dig PSP's 608 and I've never found it useful at all, it's just too clean for my taste, and MOTU's Delay wet/dry mix control is too coarse for my tastes- I'm always wanting to set it at 6.4% wet or something. There's a Waves one too that you can place all the delays around the field (sorry don't recall the name) and it just sounds really clinical/sterile/digital/cold to my ears. I can hear the audio-adjective-police siren getting closer as I type this.

[stubbsonic]

...and MOTU's Delay wet/dry mix control is too coarse for my tastes- I'm always wanting to set it at 6.4% wet or something.

Yea, I've had the exact same experience. I realized that it simply can't be used without assigning it to an Aux Track where the fader can be used for mix level. This also made it easy to apply pitch, filter and distortion effects to that delay in a controlled way.

There's a Waves one too that you can place all the delays around the field (sorry don't recall the name) and it just sounds really clinical/sterile/digital/cold to my ears. I can hear the audio-adjective-police siren getting closer as I type this.

[mikehalloran]

I can hear the audio-adjective-police siren getting closer as I type this.

I call this a Martin Mull Moment. It was he who first said, "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture."

(No matter how many others this is ascribed to on the internet, the quote is original to MM)

[Tritonemusic]

On the cheap alternative, I've had pretty good results with the Delay plug in DP, however, it seems to have sporadic digital clicks when using locked timing (beats,notes).

Yes, I've noticed that. What I can't stand the most, is when you use a Low Pass Filter (in the Filter section of the plug-in), and the first repeat has no filtering applied to it, whatsoever. That just ruins it for me. The initial sound is dry, after that the filter should kick in...it doesn't...not until you hear TWO dry signals in a row.

Other than that, I think it's a nice sounding plug.

[daniel.sneed]

[...]What I can't stand the most, is when you use a Low Pass Filter (in the Filter section of the plug-in), and the first repeat has no filtering applied to it, whatsoever. That just ruins it for me. The initial sound is dry, after that the filter should kick in...it doesn't...not until you hear TWO dry signals in a row.[...]
Other than that, I think it's a nice sounding plug.

Well... I would not use *any* delay plug without high pass and low pass, and/or high-frequency-taming-eq inserted in delay wet signal chain. But that's just me? Or why DP delay just does fine for me...

[monkey man]

Oh, and I think the delay is in the UltraChannel plug. Haven't tried it yet, but I seem to recall someone's saying something about this. I'm probably wrong 'though, 'cause I'd expect a delay to typically be in a 'verb plug; I mean, it's "crude" 'verb after all, algorithmically speaking.

Then again, a precision delay is arguably a channel utility, and it could be an extension of that...

Yep, both the Eventide UltraChannel and UltraReverb have Delay modules included Monkster.

Thank you, Billy.

[Gravity Jim]

While this particular version may have originated with Martin Mull, it's only an original paraphrase. The construction "Writing about music is like ________ about _________" goes back at least as far as 1912, when the most common version went "Writing about music is like singing about economics."

[Tritonemusic]

[...]What I can't stand the most, is when you use a Low Pass Filter (in the Filter section of the plug-in), and the first repeat has no filtering applied to it, whatsoever. That just ruins it for me. The initial sound is dry, after that the filter should kick in...it doesn't...not until you hear TWO dry signals in a row.[...]
Other than that, I think it's a nice sounding plug.

Well... I would not use *any* delay plug without high pass and low pass, and/or high-frequency-taming-eq inserted in delay wet signal chain. But that's just me? Or why DP delay just does fine for me...

I must admit that I don't understand what you're talking about.

All I was trying to say was DP's Delay plug-in doesn't filter the first repeat.

[bayswater]

People write about music here all the time, and I bet most of us understand it. Didn't Tom Lehrer sing about economics? Neither are anything like dancing about architecture.

[mikehalloran]

[...]What I can't stand the most, is when you use a Low Pass Filter (in the Filter section of the plug-in), and the first repeat has no filtering applied to it, whatsoever. That just ruins it for me. The initial sound is dry, after that the filter should kick in...it doesn't...not until you hear TWO dry signals in a row.[...]
Other than that, I think it's a nice sounding plug.

Well... I would not use *any* delay plug without high pass and low pass, and/or high-frequency-taming-eq inserted in delay wet signal chain. But that's just me? Or why DP delay just does fine for me...

This little freebie from Plugin Alliance will do the trick inserted before Delay:
https://plugin-alliance.com/en/products ... ep_v2.html

The joystick is cool.

It can be downloaded by itself or as part of the PA Free Bundle that gets you all four:

https://plugin-alliance.com/en/products ... le_v1.html

[daniel.sneed]

I must admit that I don't understand what you're talking about.
All I was trying to say was DP's Delay plug-in doesn't filter the first repeat.

Well, to write it clearer, my delay plugs are parallel aux inserted. I quite always set heavy low pass (basic DP eq plug) say around 4000Hz, after delay, in wet signal (aux track).
So dry signal is unfiltered, the first repeat will be filtered by this low pass, subsequent ones will be filtered by delay plug regen low pass, say around 2000Hz.
Sometimes I chose heavy high frequency taming, say -10dB / 6kHz, instead of low pass. Depending on taste and project.
Got satisfaction, for me and my clients, with DP delay around these settings for years now.
As ever, YMMV.

[stevenew]

Wow, lots of interesting info here, since I posted my original post I have been trying various demos. I tried Soundtoys Echoboy, MH Dirty Delay, Eventide Blackhole & UltraReverb, PSP 42, I am sure there were some others, none of them really tempted me, but I did really like the PSP 42 & the UltraReverb but a bit too pricy for me at the moment. Blackhole was fun but with a combination of Valhalla Ubermod & Shimmer I can get very similar. Dirty Delay was good but the small interface hurt my ageing eyes!

I think they have made me realise how good the Valhalla Ubermod & Nomad Echoes are for getting 'tape' delays for guitar, I am surprised that no one else has mentioned Ubermod, I do find it takes a bit time to get the sound I'm looking for but it is pretty versatile & sits in the mix beautifully.
Also I now that I have tried my UltraChannel delay I can see that getting a lot of use for my 'straight' delay needs.

Obviously I could not personally try them but the UAD RE201 & EP34 demos sound real good.

Thanks

Steve

[Tritonemusic]

I must admit that I don't understand what you're talking about.
All I was trying to say was DP's Delay plug-in doesn't filter the first repeat.

Well, to write it clearer, my delay plugs are parallel aux inserted. I quite always set heavy low pass (basic DP eq plug) say around 4000Hz, after delay, in wet signal (aux track).
So dry signal is unfiltered, the first repeat will be filtered by this low pass, subsequent ones will be filtered by delay plug regen low pass, say around 2000Hz.
Sometimes I chose heavy high frequency taming, say -10dB / 6kHz, instead of low pass. Depending on taste and project.
Got satisfaction, for me and my clients, with DP delay around these settings for years now.
As ever, YMMV.

Oh, now I understand. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[monkey man]

People write about music here all the time, and I bet most of us understand it. Didn't Tom Lehrer sing about economics? Neither are anything like dancing about architecture.

Brilliant!. Indeed, neither is so.

Great example there too, Stoiv. I've got 8 of his albums.

[Gravity Jim]

People write about music here all the time, and I bet most of us understand it. Didn't Tom Lehrer sing about economics? Neither are anything like dancing about architecture.

Yeah, they do. And when they're done, just exactly as much understanding of music has occurred as when Tom Lehrer sang about economics.