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As for hardware issues, it might be possible, but with no other apps having problems, I'll hold off on testing that for right now.

This is an RMBP with a 500 GB SSD. I suppose I can try some Drive Genius tools on it, but I would expect that if the drive was problematic, it wouldn't be causing the exact same problem with a fresh install (presumably putting things in different locations).

I suspect Michael is right. There must be some plug-in that is either causing the problem right out, or is conflicting with the RME driver. At least the list of suspects is shorter now.

I'm still inclined to suspect the new RME driver is a factor.

I have to re-read this thread and my communications with MOTU to work out how to proceed.

stubbsonic wrote: I suspect Michael is right. There must be some plug-in that is either causing the problem right out, or is conflicting with the RME driver. At least the list of suspects is shorter now.

I'm still inclined to suspect the new RME driver is a factor.

I have to re-read this thread and my communications with MOTU to work out how to proceed.

If you haven't done the 50% removal then test of your plug ins like some of us have been suggesting then I'm done here. Like I mentioned earlier, it's possible the RME is a factor, but it's very likely the reason it's a factor is because some older plug in of yours isn't working well in the OS you're on and the version of DP your'e working in etc. and the new audio driver (that exposes it's insufficient code) is the final straw that 'breaks' the badly coded plug in. You've gone through the total pain of a complete fresh instal, so you can write off old unused drivers messing with DP etc.

This is the procedure that you can do to determine what is the cause now that you've more or less isolated it down to two things (it's always possible it's something else like my Logitech mouse driver story):

With the latest RME drivers installed do the 50% removal procedure. If you still get crashes without any plug ins installed at all then it's definitely the RME driver, if you can isolate a plug in or two that crashes it's possible that an update for that plug in is available. (just guessing that you didn't reinstall all your plug ins from scratch). Otherwise remove them.

If all problems persist randomly even after going through that procedure then you can likely rule out the driver and plug ins as the problem and look at other things for a solution.

Lastly if this keeps up, just go ahead and upgrade to 64 bit, there are at least two solutions to 32 bit plug ins that allow you to use them in 64 bit DP8. It's IMO very likely a conflict with a 32 bit plug in that's not tested in new DP8, new RME driver, New OS etc. but that same plug in developer probably tested the newer 64 bit version of that plug in.

I didn't pick up earlier that you were still running @ 32 bits. I agree, go 64, there isn't any reason not to, with 32 Lives and other wrappers out there.

I know that Michael and I disagree about the driver issue. I suspect the driver first and foremost, but I know that it could easily be a plugin, too. If you've just reinstalled your plugins, and it's still happening, then it's certainly worth a try. I'd definitely do the 50%/25%/12.5%... plugin test, removing half, and if those work you remove them and add the other half. If there is failure in either half then you choose that half and do the same thing again: remove half of THOSE, then the other half, and see if you can pinpoint a group, each time, that crashes the app.

The trouble is, if it's the driver, you'll get crashes in any group of plugins you test, since it's not the plugins doing it. I'd first remove the driver: uninstall it, or find the installer log and go to every location to remove what it installed. Use only the Mac's internal Core Audio bus, using headphones plugged into the front of your mac. If you still get a crash this way, then it's time to debug the plugins. Leave the driver uninstalled. Do your plugin tests with the internal Core Audio bus.

If you find the culprit that way, you can be pretty sure of stopping the problem. NOTE: when choosing groups of plugins to remove, go by brand. That is, remove all your WAVES plugins. Then your Nomad Factory plugins, etc., etc... Why? Because what's conflicting with Yosemite in one of them may be conflicting in all of them.

But start with the driver.

You said a while back that without the interface turned on, the driver should not be loaded. That is technically true, but I just checked my Activity Monitor and found a MOTUFireWireConsoleLauncher that seems to run all the time. Maybe there is a similar process running in your Mac. You may try killing it and seeing if it stays off, and if that is the problem. Or you may find other RME process threads.

By all means check Activity Monitor often and always, and corroborate what you see with the latest logs after a crash. If you see the name of such a process thread, that would be highly suspicious.

Shooshie

I truly appreciate all of your continued advice & support. REALLY!!!

I'm studying all of it and doing my best to process it all.

Here are a few updates & clarifications:

1. The initial problem occurred while in 32-bit mode, but subsequent crashes have been in either mode, and I've only been testing 64 bit for the last week or so, with the same crashes.

2. When I was working with MOTU support, we did the thing of isolating the plugin by loading half of the plugins. The first go-around it was the AAS Player; the 2nd time it was PianoTeq. After eliminating those, it crashed again (#3) after which I did the fresh install without seeing which plugin was damaged, and this post-fresh-install crash (#4) I didn't check it either. I was still thinking of the damaged AU as "effect" rather than "cause". I was guessin that whatever was happening was damaging some plugin (or that plugin's pref) during the crash-- because all those plugins were working fine prior to RME 3.26.

When I did the fresh install, I narrowed my plugins down to 30 of what I considered useful (but not as narrow as "essentials"). I downloaded the latest installers for ALL the plugins. So that was to address the possibility of "old code". I did use the newer RME driver.

3. I haven't had any problems with other Mac apps. Though the Fireface MIDI Driver did cause AudioMIDI Setup to take about 5 minutes before reporting that the MIDI server had an error. Removing the FMD, fixed that issue.

4. I'm afraid I must have gotten sloppy in my trouble-shooting, because I wasn't successful at narrowing things down. It just seems like a moving target. I will continue to review my notes and re-confirm things as necessary.

5. I've already started my second attempt at a fresh install (changing my process slightly).
--I'll use a fresh download of DP 8.07
--I'll only load essential plugins-- (AAS stuff, Pianoteq, Kontakt, Reaktor, etc)
--no RME driver -- I'll work something else out to get audio in.
--get everything situated
--After that's all done, I'll do a clone of that drive (to avoid having to do the big install party again).

6. I think I'll set up a little external boot drive with just DP & RME and test plugins there. I should have thought of that sooner.

7. I'll install the OLD RME driver (3.06) on the internal drive and see if I can work in 64 bit mode.

I'm suspicious of Big Tick's Rhino, Image-Line's Drumaxx & Morphine, and Cakewalk's Z3ta+, not because of this specific set of issues, just for general reasons. Of all those, I only have active projects with Drumaxx. None of them are "essential". I do find them to be fascinating for other reasons, but I don't really make "electronic" music.

I appreciated seeing your detailed updates on this so if and when it happens to me, I'm not starting from scratch. Just sorry I couldn't come up with something more helpful.

stubbsonic wrote: I'm suspicious of Big Tick's Rhino, Image-Line's Drumaxx & Morphine, and Cakewalk's Z3ta+, not because of this specific set of issues, just for general reasons. Of all those, I only have active projects with Drumaxx. None of them are "essential". I do find them to be fascinating for other reasons, but I don't really make "electronic" music.

I'm running Mountain Lion on a Mac Pro with DP8.07, RME Fireface 800 with the latest driver, ad Z3ta+2. You can probably safely say it isn't Z3ta+2, and, you can probably say if it is a conflict with the latest RME driver, it's with a specific plug in you have that I don't.

To help you out with this:
I run an 8 core 2.66ghz Mac Pro with 24GB RAM. DP8.07

Hardware (that requires drivers/software)-
RME Fireface 800
iLok 2
MOTU MTP/AV
Novation Remote SL
Rig Kontrol
Kore 1
Mackie Control
Logitech Performance Mouse MX

Plug ins:
Complete Bundles-
Nomad Factory all
Ohm Force all
Komplete 9 Standard
Sound Hack Spectral Shapers
AAS all
Blur Cat Audio free plug in bundle

single
Air Music Tech. - Loom
Izotope - Iris, RX2
Arturia- Minimoog V Original
Audio Ease- Speakerphone
Audio Spillage- Electroid
Cakewalk- Z3ta+2
Camel Audio- Phat, Space and Alchemy
Celemony Melodyne Editor
Eventide- Ultrachannel and Ultrareverb
Fabfilter- Pro L, C, and G
FXpansion- Geist
IK Mutimedia- Amplitube Metal
Lexicon LXP suite
MOTU- MachFive3
New Sonic Arts- Granite
Oli Larkin- Endless Series
PSP- Mixpack, BussPressor, MasterComp, Vintage Warmer, Xenon, Neon
Sound Toys- Little Microshift
Sugar Bytes- Thesys
TAL - U-No-LX
U-He - Zebra 2, Bazille, Filterscape, MFM2, Zebralette
Voxengo- Elephant
XILS-Lab- PolyKB II, Synthix, XILS 3 ans 4


Plus various demos etc. and no crashes. You could probably use what we have in common, (AAS RME Mac DP8 etc.) as a starting point.

Thanks, Michael C.

That lets me put a few more on my "safe" list.

Are you getting any crash reports?

If so, you can have Apple look at them. When placing the support call, indicate that it's a new OS install and you qualify for the exception. That way the call is free.

stubbsonic wrote:Thanks, Michael C.

That lets me put a few more on my "safe" list.

Oh and BTW the same setup is on my Retina MacBook Pro 15" 2.7ghz
Though I don't run the Fireface through it often. Mostly the Rig Kontrol audio is good enough away from the studio.

mikehalloran wrote:Are you getting any crash reports?

If so, you can have Apple look at them. When placing the support call, indicate that it's a new OS install and you qualify for the exception. That way the call is free.

The DP crash happens in such a way as to not create a crash report. After the DP crash, I tried using GB and it not only crashed (presumably because of the damaged plug/pref) but it did create a crash log which I have.

It's good to know that I can connect with Apple if it is a new OS install. Thanks!

Wow! That Garageband log ought to have some important info in it! Have you combed through it in the last few seconds before the crash?

Can you position windows in such a way that you can always see the last few lines of the GB log? Then watch it as GB crashes. You might see something flash by at that exact moment. Actually, it should be fairly obvious without having to watch it in real time, but that's an experiment I always wanted to try. I haven't been able to time the crash of any app such that I can see it happen in the log, because I so seldom have crashes. (knocking on wood... I sure don't want to go through what you've been through! Omigosh!)

Shoosh

The other thing to look at is Console. Open the window and watch what happens. You can drill down on any complex events. If something is trying to launch that you thought was gone, this is where you will see it.

I don't think I have the know-how to interpret crash logs or the console. But will try that when I get my experimental external drive setup.

I did do a search through that GB crash log for "component" and the only hits were related to rhino.

In this particular case, Rhino was not yet authorized, so there were error messages related to what it could find/load, etc.

I'll keep a close eye on that, moving forward.

I just braved up and installed DP8 on my main drive. Crashed on first launch.

This time there is NO RME driver installed at all.

Will see if I can find any crash reports. I'll also isolate the plugins. At this point there are very few installed.